Transcript 0:00 Welcome back to another episode here on the Iron Sights podcast. I got my favorite nutrition coach, Stephen Brenna, in the house. 0:07 And the topic is the five most annoying things every nutrition coach and nutrition client wants to avoid. 0:13 As the old State Farm commercial says, we know a few things 'cause we've seen a few things, and, uh, we get into those things today. 0:19 So whether or not you're a nutrition coach or whether you've been involved in nutrition coaching program or you're considering it, these are five definite takeaways you wanna think about before embarking on that journey or maybe re-entering into it. 0:30 [air whooshing] Here's another Red Dot Fitness program I wanna tell you about. 0:34 If you are a novice to intermediate exerciser or somebody that's been off for a while and you're jumping back in, it's called Red Dot Fitness Strong. It's our most popular muscle-building and strength-building program. 0:46 It's four months long. So you're gonna get access to four months of training. There's a little bit of an on-ramp that happens at the beginning of that and then we phase this out over the next three months. 0:55 We've taken care of everything you're gonna need in there. So all the exercises, including demonstration videos, reps, sets, tempos, volume, intensity. We thought about all that. All you gotta do is get into the program. 1:06 Again, it's 16 weeks of workouts. They're about 60 minutes each. They're super easy to follow. You're gonna get exposure to a lot of different stuff, maybe some you've done, maybe stuff you haven't done. 1:17 It's our most popular program 'cause it's gotten our clients the best kind of results. So again, if you're looking to build muscle and strength, jump into RDF Strong. 1:25 You can go to rdfstrong.com and get 25% off that program right now by using code STRONG25. So one more time, that's rdfstrong.com. Use STRONG25 to get 25% off. 1:40 [rock music] Welcome to Iron Sights. 1:45 This podcast candidly seeks to create opportunities and deliver impact by sharing the experiences and wisdom of successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders who unapologetically aim to win in health, fitness, business and life. 1:59 I'm your host, Scott Howell. Welcome to old school meets new school, tradition meets innovation, and imperfection meets excellence. Thanks for listening, and enjoy the show. 2:11 All right, and we are back here in the Iron Sights podcast studio. Got Stephen back in the chair. Yeah. A little bit, Stephen. Yeah. Um, I'm stoked to have you here. Mm-hmm. 2:22 We're, uh, we're back to talk a bit about nutrition, nutrition coaching. And, uh, today we're talking about the things that annoy us a little bit as, as, uh- [laughs]... as nutrition coaches. The C. 2:32 And, yeah, and it's not, it's not about bashing, um, you know, people that are struggling with their nutrition or dietary success. 2:39 It's just maybe to give some insights to, you know, to those that, you know, have had maybe a coaching experience or thinking about getting into a coaching experience, maybe things to avoid. 2:49 And for coaches that are listening to this, to maybe con- they can commiserate a little bit and- Yeah... and, uh, maybe- Maybe relate a bit. Yeah, maybe we can provide some solutions in here, too. 2:57 It's not just about, you know, the things that annoy us, but, like, things that we've learned how to maybe try to be an, a little un- annoyed a little less. [laughs] Yeah. 3:04 [laughs] Or you, you know, kind of work around or try to avoid, um... [clears throat] Some uncomfortable conversations. 3:09 Yeah, and I think, you know, if you've, if you, if you are at that stage, you're like, "Look, I really need some help with this," like on the nutrition coaching side of things, um, and w- whether it's nutrition or a personal trainer, if your personal trainer is not also your nutrition coach, 'cause th- those are very separate things. 3:24 They are very different things. And they're often combined. S- some, some coaches can do a really good job at that. Some people should stick to one lane more than the other, for sure. 3:32 Here at Red Dot Fitness, we do a little bit of both, [clears throat] but we have you as the guy that we can send people to to get really into depth with their nutrition coaching versus just the basic guidance. Yeah. 3:44 And some people just need guidance, and other people need some, we need to peel back the layers of the onion, go, go a little deeper. Go through the whole process. 3:50 Yeah, and, and that process, um, is a process, and it, it can be sh- it can be challenging. It can be frustrating for people. 3:56 And oftentimes we're getting them at that point where they're like, "Man, I need to get my arms around this." They are also frustrated. Yeah. And so [laughs] um- They, they, they come to you at a point of frustration. 4:08 Usually it's what it takes to, to get them through the door. There's a pain point, right? Yeah. And, and there's a pain point, and it's, it's a... 4:14 When we talk about nutrition, it is, there are so many aspects of, um, you know, having dietary success. 4:21 And so w- when it's, when I talk about dietary success, uh, certainly there's the food that we put in our mouth, but the results that you get or the results that you're not getting are never solely about the foods that we- Food choices... 4:33 the food that we eat. Yeah, yeah. And but at the same time, uh, those are important, and there are things that come up. 4:38 And so as much as we try to avoid some things or try to pre, uh, kind of set the table, uh, for lack of a better term, to avoid certain things, some of these things are inevitable. 4:48 I think in, in, almost every time they're avoidable, uh, but at the same time it takes both the coach and the client to have a little bit more awareness, uh, kind of coming in. 5:00 So again, we try to establish that up front. And oftentimes in that awareness there's a discovery process. 5:06 And in the discovery process sometimes the frustration level can even get a little bit more elevated than when they came in. 5:12 And I think a lot of times that has to do with expectation setting and, you know, what do I expect to get out of this as a client, and then what are my expectations for the client as a coach, and making sure we're very clear on what those are and, and, and, and establish some very even ground so we have a foundation to build from. 5:30 Mm-hmm. But again, there are things that come up along the way that can frustrate both parties. Mm-hmm. And, um, I wanna talk about those a little bit so we can have a little bit of fun with this. 5:39 But I, I, just again, in setting the table here, this is not to bash people or, or, or call people out on their, on their frustration. Um, I've done this for a very long time, and I've been at both ends of the spectrum. 5:53 So frustrated at one point as a coach that I just stopped nutrition coaching for a while. I needed a break. Yeah. [laughs] Uh, [laughs] because- Yeah... I recognized, like, it was in my head. 6:02 I was already kind of coming in annoyed, kind of knowing what was gonna come down, come down the pipe, and I wasn't in a good mental- You know, or, or emotional position to deal with some of that stuff Became a little irritable. 6:14 And I was irritable. Yeah. And that's not a good thing. And so, uh, you know, I had to step back and go, "Dude, this is all me. This... 6:19 I should've, I should see these things coming, and I need to be a little bit more empathetic maybe, uh, or a little bit more patient, or do a better job of setting things up." 6:27 So maybe some of the information we share sets people up for better success both as coaches and as clients, you know, going through. 6:32 And particularly as we're kind of edging into the end of 2025, we're gonna get into 2026, this is typically a time when people are like, "Oh, um, I need to make some changes. 6:43 I'm not gonna do it quite yet 'cause there's a few weeks of December left, and I know that this is probably not a good time for me-" Yeah... 6:49 uh, to be making those, those decisions because holiday parties, because off, you know, set schedules." All kinds of reasons as well as excuses. Um, I think it's never, uh, a perfect time. 7:03 Uh, but at, at the very least, uh, this is a very good time for people to be considering things and the, and the changes. I don't like the new year, new me type of thing. 7:13 At the same time, I do respect that there's, like, on the calendar- There's something about turning the page There is. Yeah. 7:21 And so maybe this helps people when they turn that page, that page looks a little different for them and they're writing- Mm-hmm... different chapters in 2026 than- [laughs]... than maybe they did in 2025 or previously. 7:30 This, this year is the year. This is the year. So, um, you know, kinda coming into this. Uh, again, setting the table. It's, it's just like, hey, these are things that, that inevitably come up. 7:40 And it's not with every client, but I would g- I would bet that at least one of these things comes up. Got, like, five things here, but I bet at least one of these things comes up at least once with every client. 7:50 In some cases, we get all five. [laughs] And, and in some cases, um, it's just one. And very rarely do we ever not run into some frustration. This, this, this journey is never linear. 8:02 And I think the nature of nutrition in that it needs to be prioritized 24 hours a day- It follows you everywhere... it follows you everywhere. It's a tough thing. 8:12 And, and there's the accountability level that, that, that n- you need to have for yourself, the expectations. Um, then living up to both of those, um, becomes very challenging for people. 8:23 And, and, and again- Especially over an extended period of time. Yeah, which is- Which is what it takes... which is what it takes. Uh, the, the results are, are, are never immediate. 8:31 Um, and what I mean by that is, like, physically. I, I say this a lot. 8:35 I haven't said it in a long time 'cause we haven't actually chatted on the podcast for a while, but I haven't said it publicly in a long time, and that is the physiological changes will always precede the physical. 8:44 And everybody... 8:45 I don't, I haven't really, I don't know that I've ever had a client ever, right, both on the, on the fitness-specific end or on the nutrition-specific end, that didn't wanna change something about themselves physically. 8:57 Yeah. Right? That's why, that's why they called you. Yeah. Generally speaking, we can, we can peel back a couple layers of the onion and we'll find that, right? They wanna change something physically. 9:05 And then ultimately there are d- there are deeper levels to that which o- oftentimes get discovered, um, or maybe haven't been very well developed in maybe the client's head that we're kinda walking them through. 9:16 Again, which then kind of like, "Oh my God, there's, there are... 9:18 I do have some accountabi- accountability issues," or, "I do have some commitment level issues," or there may be even some deeper-rooted things there that we may or may not be qualified to deal with. 9:28 Um- Yeah, on the psychological side of things. On the... Yeah. 9:30 And, [coughs] and that said, so I, I, just going back, I don't wanna m- make this a, you know, like a, a punching people in the face type of episode, but sometimes getting a little slap upside the head- [laughs] Yeah, just a little wake-up call... 9:44 can be, can be, yeah, can be helpful. And just, like, shaking your state is m- maybe the way I think I heard, like, Tony Robbins refer to it. Yeah, change your state. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 9:51 You just kind of get a little- Shake it all down, yeah... rattle your cage a little bit and kinda get you thinking a little bit before you embark on this, you know, again, in 2026 or whenever. 9:59 Uh, as both the coach and the client just kinda thinking about, like, "Hey, how, how can I handle myself maybe a little bit differently to have a little bit more success, um, a, a little bit more enjoyment in the process, and a little bit more understanding," you know, kinda going forward from, from both levels, again, through both parties. 10:13 So where do you wanna start? What's the th- Um... what's one of the things that- Right. First one we got on the, on the list here is tracking, referring to your calorie, your macronutrient tracking. 10:23 And then I wrote down here, honesty therein. Yeah, man. So uh, already, I, I already know people on the other end of this thing, "Oh, we're talking about tracking again, dude?" Tracking calories. Tracking calories. 10:35 Uh, and, and r- already the frustration meter starts to- It has some negative connotations. It does. Uh, and I get it. Uh, you know, like, I, I, I, I do get it. 10:44 It seems, it seems like it's, it could be become compulsive. You could develop some type of neurosis by doing this. Um, and, and then I ask the questions is why would that be? 10:56 Um, and again, this goes back to maybe the psychological and emotional states of people. 11:00 Like, depending on what their history is and their relationships with food and exercise over time, uh, you know, uh, through childhood into young adulthood into, you know, being more of a grown-up, you know, as you get older with the stresses of life. 11:13 I understand, [coughs] pardon me, that, that tracking means accountability, right? Yeah. And I also understand that it could bring up some really, um, 11:23 I guess, for lack of a better term, some kinda some gnarly things that may have occurred in somebody's life in terms of their obsession. Yeah. 11:29 Uh- I think that for, for some people it, it could trigger some type of fixation. Yeah. And, and so just, again, being honest, you know, about that and kinda putting it out there, being, being honest about it. 11:41 Like, that is, that is a thing, but, but, and there's a but with this. 11:45 When it comes to n- your nutrition and your, your health, um, we've referred to, you know, your health and your body and with regard to exercise and nutrition as, you know, if you think of it as a bank account- Mm-hmm... 11:57 you need to have some level of awareness. When we think about this, like, in finance, there are deposits and there are withdrawals. 12:03 And there's probably been a time in your life where you were n- did not have a healthy bank account, right? [laughs] Yeah. 12:09 Uh, either because you were being irresponsible, you were not, you did not have total awareness of what was going on. 12:14 I mean, I remember when I first got my first checking account- Uh, as a kid, you know, my mom's like, "We need to establish a checking account for you," right? "And a savings account." So we went down and did that. 12:23 I'm like, "Well, as long as there's checks in the checkbook," right? [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] I just write whatever on there, right? Yeah. [laughs] And, and, and this thing takes care of itself, right? 12:31 I watched my parents do that, you know- Yeah... as a kid or whatever. Like, we pay bills, we write checks, and the thing gets taken care of. 12:37 Obviously, there's consequence to writing a check that you can't cash or that, that bounces. And so if you, if you kind of look at it that way, this is where kind of tracking... This is where tracking falls into it. 12:47 And if you go to your accountant at the end of the year or you go to your banker, right? 12:51 Your investment banker or whatever else, or you just go to the bank to withdraw money and there isn't money there to withdraw, we have some things that we have to work through whether you like it or not, right? 13:01 And so there's some value in obviously having a better understanding. So let's talk about tracking. Yeah, I mean, I would... I've, I've used the same... I probably used that analogy like less than a week ago- Yeah... 13:11 a- as far as, like, okay, you're, you're trying to save for a vacation that'll cost you $2,000, whatever the case is. 13:19 And would you just sort of hope that that money is there w- when it's time to, to pay for the vacation? No. You would be... 13:29 You would have an awareness of what's going in, what's going out, and how am I going to intentionally create that allocation? 13:37 But I need some quantitative basis in order to do that, otherwise I'm just guessing and hoping. 13:43 And a lot of people are just guessing and hoping when it comes to their nutrition and getting the result that they desire in terms of muscle gain, in terms of body fat loss, whatever it is. 13:54 So, um, w- you know, we talked a little bit about the, the fixation. Um, I would say that's more an exception than the rule- I agree 100%... 14:01 a- as far as, like, okay, th- this could create like a neurosis for, for some individuals. I think it gets overused- Yeah... and it, it becomes an excuse. Yeah. They... 14:09 For, for most people, why they don't wanna do it is it just feels like a burden. It's work. Yeah. It just feels like a burden, and it feels like an intrusion, and it feels maybe weird. 14:19 Like, "Oh, I'm, I'm this weird person who's writing down what I'm eating, and people are gonna judge me." I'm gonna be judged. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I think it, it... 14:27 And I, I think that more so is the hesitation behind it, is it, yeah, it feels like a burden, it feels like an intrusion. Um, but that's r- I mean, again, you're just guessing if you have no quantitative basis. 14:41 Especially if you've never done it before, you... People have no idea the caloric density of food. They have no idea how many calories that they're eating a day. 14:49 They have no idea how many calories they're expending a day. They have literally no quantitative, uh, frame of reference, and they're just like, "Oh, well, I just... I should just eat more salads and less Burger King." 15:00 Right. That's how it happens. Yeah. And so, uh, I mean, we... If we... 15:04 Comparatively, if you looked at that in the world of finance, if you go into somebody from an investment perspective or from a bank account management perspective and you're asking for their help, [laughs] you're gonna take the next step, and this isn't free, and you actually have to pay for it. 15:17 Well, if that person is going to... y- you're paying that person to help you, then they're going to likely ask you for a lot of financial- Yeah. What, what are your-... information... 15:24 what is your income and what are your expenses? 100% every single time. And that's where it starts. It has to start there so that we have, again, some frame of reference from a quantitative perspective. 15:34 So, you know, the, the, the tracking piece and a, and a, and a client's refusal to track, um, that's a real challenge for me because we- that's where things get started. 15:44 Like, we have to have this foundation to work from, and it doesn't... To me, like, it, it... And when I say this, I mean, it does, but it doesn't matter, right? 15:54 What, what matters is, is that we have a frame of reference. We have to have something to work from. We have to have a base. Yeah. I, I can't make recommendations to you when I don't know where you are right now. 16:03 Which leads- Otherwise, I'm just guessing as well... which, which is gonna lead to other things in this list, right? Yeah. Again, with the recommendations and, and, and, and needing to make adjustments to things. 16:11 If I don't know what to adj- help you adjust, I can't even begin to give you direction on this. So, and even if you're working on this on your own, it's the same. 16:18 So we, we've, we've talked about this term intuitive eating before and, and things like... Like, look, this, this... Like, in- intuition comes from knowledge and experience, right? Yeah. 16:29 And- You have to earn intuitive eating. Correct. And it's... 16:32 Which means you have to have a very strong understanding of where you're coming into this and where you've been so that you know what to do in the future to go wherever it is you're trying to go. Yeah. 16:42 Your, your intuition has gotten you to the point right now that you're unhappy with. How, how's your intuition been working so far? Yeah. And, and that again is like, it's almost, um, offensive- Yeah... right? 16:51 To ask that question. So as coaches, we have to be really careful in terms of how we present this to get people to understand. Again, I think the bank account analogy is probably the easiest one to use because- Yeah. 17:00 Most people can understand that. Yeah... they can relate to that. The other thing to think about here is, like, especially if your goal is weight loss, right? Mm-hmm. 17:08 Or, or body fat loss, which i- which with regard to at this point, I think most people understand if I wanna lose body fat or if I wanna lose weight, let's just leave it very general, like, I need to be in a caloric deficit. 17:22 Well, I need to know what the bank account looks like right now in order to understand what would be appropriate for you in terms of going into that deficit. 17:29 So again, going back to the refusal to track, um, I need to ask a few more questions as to why that would be an issue for you. Um, but I think you nailed the two things. It's work, right? 17:40 It's, it's, a- and it's, it feels intrusive. Now somebody's getting a personal look. Well, look, if you're... If I'm gonna get into a relationship, a coaching relationship with a client, like, we need to be personal. 17:52 This is gonna get personal. Yeah. And the reason you're here is because you're having a personal issue. 17:57 And if you don't share those issues with me or those things with me at a lot of different levels, you're not putting me in a position to be able to help, help you. And here's what this is gonna lead to. 18:05 This is gonna lead to more frustration, this is gonna lead to a lack of success, and this is gonna lead to pointing fingers, blaming, uh, all, all kinds of things. And this can happen from both ends. 18:16 It can happen from both the client end and the coach's end in terms of pointing fingers, like, whose fault is this? Um, the easiest way to avoid this is to begin this process, which... really is very simple. 18:28 It's very uncomplicated, right? We just need... And I... Look, whatever you were eating a week ago, right, before you hired me, that's what I want you to write down. 18:37 I just want you to eat like that and tell me where you are. At least give me something to work with. 18:42 A refusal to do that is basically a refusal to give me the information that I need in order to help you that you are effectively paying me to do. Yeah. I mean, going back again to that, the, the financial analogy. 18:53 Yeah, that'd be like, you know, I'm hiring this accountant, and they're like, "Okay, let me see your numbers." No. Right. [laughs] No, I don't wanna talk about money with you. Right. 'Cause I mean, yeah, I don't... 19:01 You know, m- most of us, you know, we don't, at least in this society, this culture, we don't tend to disclose, you know, the exact numbers when it comes to our income, our expenses, things like that. 19:12 It's, it's sort of guarded information, but that is the information you d- will disclose to your accountant. But one- Like, you're not gonna be like, "No, I don't wanna talk about money with you, man." 19:19 But one way or another- Why are we here?... this is, it's gonna come up, right? Yeah. The tax man is gonna figure this out, right? Yeah. At some point, right? 19:25 The federal government and the state government are gonna figure this out. Like, very t- unless you're laundering money and doing some weird things on the back end, maybe you can fly through the smoke screen. 19:33 But the point of that is, is that flying through the smoke screen has likely led you to where you are right now, and the longer you've flown through that and created that smoke screen for yourself on the nutrition or dietary side, sometimes the tougher this is to, to untangle. 19:46 And I, and, and, and so I wanna respect that. Like, it, so at the same time, I'm not doing this to be intrusive. I'm not doing this to, to create more work for you. Yeah, to embarrass you, yeah. I'm doing the opposite. 19:57 I'm doing this so that we don't have to do this much work going down, you know, going further into this process. 20:03 But it's supremely frustrating for me when we, we're, we're trying to get th- this ball rolling in the right direction because this client has come to me and said, "I need or I want this," and I want to and need to help you with this, right? 20:21 And you are pushing back with the, "Well, I tracked yesterday, but I didn't track for two days. And then, you know, I tracked for a couple days. 20:29 I didn't track the weekend 'cause I fell off the wagon, and it just wasn't very good." And- Yeah... and here we are. 20:34 We're, we're, we're now a week, two weeks, three weeks into this thing where we still don't have a baseline to work from. Yeah. And it- It wasn't very good. I just want... That, that comes up. 20:43 I, oh, I didn't, I didn't eat well, so I didn't wanna write it down. Right. Like, that, that, the, there's, like, a shame around that, and it's like I'm not, I'm not here to shame you. I'm not here to red pen you. 20:52 But I need to understand where you're at. Yeah. It's, it's, it comes back to the honesty- Yeah... right, in, in, in the, in the tracking piece, too. 21:00 So there's a, there's another piece to that which is, like, you're telling me something that may or may not be entirely true. Yeah. Right? 21:07 That's like telling me, "Well, I've got about 50 grand in my bank account," when you really only got 20, right? Well, dude, we can't work like this. Like- Yeah. [laughs]... 21:16 I, what, what recommendations, what direction do we need to go? I can't, I can't work with, with you. Or I have withdrawn, you know, $30,000 of my $50,000 bank account or whatever it is. 21:27 That would be a great bank account for most people, right? Yeah. [laughs] I've dra- I've withdrawn 30, but I'm not gonna tell you. Yeah. Right? I, I, I don't wanna tell you that. 21:34 You, you have to understand as the client what kind of position that's gonna put your coach in and ultimately what, what, what position that puts you in in terms of finding the right solution for you. 21:43 And just like in finance, there are many different products, solutions. There's, there's a pl- there's a lot of playbooks to get you out of your current situation. It's... 21:53 Or, or maybe a better analogy is, is yeah, you've got $50,000 in your bank account, but you've got $100,000 in bad debt, right? Like, that, that's gonna be a problem. And- Yeah... 22:03 and the first thing we have to- That affects what we're gonna do with the 50 grand, yeah. 100%. 22:06 And the, one of the first things we have to do is we have to figure out how to get that bad debt down, right, within reason, within your personal circumstance, whatever that happens to be. 22:14 So whether you're- What you can afford right now, yeah. What, what can you do? Like, and in order to understand that, I need to understand what all the pieces look like here. 22:22 Um, it's kind of like a puzzle, you know- Mm-hmm... for, for lack of a better, better term. 22:25 There's a lot of puzzle, puzzle pieces in this big puzzle, and, and tracking helps us get those puzzle pieces organized to a certain extent, right, so that we can start to kind of put, like, oh, this is the... 22:37 If this is the, the, the portrait puzzle that's sitting in front of me, this is the sky, right? Yeah. This is all the blue pieces. Yeah. We know those can kind of go over here on this part of the, the puzzle table. Yeah. 22:46 Right? And this is the, the flowers and the pretty rocks, right? And those are at the bottom, right, of the landscape, right? We kind of put those down here, and we... That's the whole point. Fi- find our corners. 22:55 We gotta start by finding the corners and the borders. And work our way- Yeah... towards the middle, right? So it's, I think that's a really good analogy. 23:00 So again, um, uh, just from an annoyance perspective or a frustration perspective, one of the best ways to frustrate the hell out of your coach, which ultimately will frustrate the hell out of you, I promise you this, is to, the r- just refuse to track or not be honest in, in what you're doing. 23:17 And, uh, uh, the, the next thing I would say that, that this is down the line is just being consistent with it. And, and I'll throw this out there to people. This is not something you have to do forever. 23:26 Uh, you know, once you get into a, into a routine or a rhythm, tracking can com- become a lot less because now you're a little bit more intuitive or you- Yeah. You've earned that intuitive eating now. And I- Yeah. 23:36 W- I say the same thing to my clients. We have a budget. Yeah, I get it. Like, nobody wants to do this for the rest of their lives. I don't wanna do this for the rest of my life. 23:43 I don't expect you to do this for the rest of your life. But initially, that tracking is going to help you understand calorie density. It's gonna help you understand macronutrient density. 23:54 It's going to be a very enlightening process, and that's how I try to frame it with people, is that, um, you know, th- this isn't... I mean, yes, there is a, a degree of accountability to it. 24:05 Yes, I am gonna review these numbers, but I'm not gonna review these numbers so that I can take you into the principal's office in our next session and tell you how much you suck. 24:14 Um, it, it is for you to begin to build an understanding of oh, that handful of almonds that I had that I thought was, uh, innocuous, and almonds aren't bad for you. You can eat almonds. 24:24 But that might have been 175 calories, a- and you didn't realize, like, oh Nuts are actually much higher in fat than they are in protein, and those calories are gonna add up quickly. 24:34 I thought I was just snacking on some nuts. Healthy food. 'Cause that's a... Yeah, that's a healthy snack. That's a good food choice. True. But not if it was 500 calories that put you into a surplus. Yeah. 24:45 So, um, a- again, like tracking is a thing. It's not... I think there are some people that need to track more, and there are some people that could probably do with tracking a lot less. Mm. And we need to figure... 24:55 What, what we need to do is establish a baseline right off the bat of, "Look, we need to get you to track no matter how good or how bad you, you, uh, you think you are with your nutrition." This is... 25:04 That's not what this is about. This is- Yeah. The worst... Yeah. If you're already good with it, then we'll just verify that you are. Great... this is a little data collection. 25:10 And as coaches, particularly on the nutrition side, it's the same on the fitness side, we are collecting data or should be collecting data on where you are. 25:17 Like, we talk about this thing all the time, progressive overload. Like, what are we doing to create the stimulus, right? To create the adaptation that you are looking for, want, or need as a, as a client. 25:26 Like, are you looking to build muscle? Are you looking to build endurance? Like, all of these things have metrics attached to them, and there's this, uh, I think there's a, like a, um... What's the word? 25:35 Um, like an aversion to finding out what those numbers really mean for a lot of people when they get into nutrition coaching, and it's likely that's part of one of the reasons they're probably at that point of frustration, is because they are so lost. 25:48 Yeah. So think about it this way, um, going back to the puzzle pieces or the finance or whatever. It kind of gives us a compass, right? To, to know what direction we need to move from. 25:57 And, uh, if you are out stuck in the woods somewhere and you're feeling lost, right? And you don't know what direction you're moving, it's gonna be really cl- really tough to get back to home. 26:05 And if you're, if you're calling somebody in to help you, right? And they don't have that- They don't know where you are. [laughs] They have, they have no idea where. 26:12 They get dropped off blindfolded in the, in the, in the forest with you. Like, now you got two people, right? That are- That are lost. Yeah... that are, that are lost. 26:20 And so that is a huge responsibility on the client, uh, to sort of overcome and figure out a way to make it work. There's a, there's a lot of ways to do this. You could go pencil and paper. You could go apps. 26:29 It does not have to be complicated these days. It's very easy to do. Uh, there's a lot of ways to do that. I mean, when I started, man, we had, um, the Calorie King. I don't know if you remember. 26:38 Actually, before that, I was, um... This is a company that was around for a long time. It's called Apex. And, uh, then it turned into NutriFit, and it was the same guys. 26:47 Got Neil Spruce behind it, then he ultimately turned that into DotFit. So people that might know DotFit, that's where that originally came from. It was an awesome program, and we were all about, like tracking. Mm. 26:57 You know? Like, give meal plans. Like, come up, come up with the thing. And what we really r- what we ended up realizing was is the most valuable part of all of that was not the meal plans. 27:07 We recognized those things didn't work very well, right? But w- but was the tracking mechanisms and... Because at the time, all we had was literally paperback Calorie King books- Mm-hmm... 27:17 where you would flip through, and then you'd have to manually write it down. It's so easy now. Um, again, like the overcoming the, the, the... any barriers to getting this done, and doing it fairly accurately. 27:28 Doesn't have to be perfect. That's the other thing. I think perfect is the enemy of good. 27:32 Like, let's just get this stuff out here so that now you put me in a position to maybe be able to ask you a few more questions, right? And, and give you some level of direction as we're starting to- Yeah... 27:41 kind of master this process. Yeah. I can make a much more specific recommendation, and I think it's also... You know, I always try to treat it as an opportunity to praise my clients for what they're doing well. Yeah. 27:53 And to affirm them for what they're doing well. And like, okay, yeah, these are, you know, these are the areas where you're already doing well. Good job. Keep it up. 28:01 These are some other areas where we might need to make some tweaks, some adjustments here. Yeah. [laughs] Fu- feeling the flame of shame, um, doesn't work very well for most people. Yeah. Some people it does. 28:09 [laughs] You know? That's not, that's not my practice, but it's, some people- Yeah, that's not really my approach. Yeah... so some pe- some people it does, and I get it. 28:15 But y- I think if you step back as, as a person and you think about that, like what works better? Praise or, or, or, or shame, right? Or bullying and that kind of thing. 28:23 Again, I think there's a time and a place for everything for, for, for probably most people, and some people probably took some benefit from both. 28:29 Um, but I think for the m- majority of people, what they wanna know is like, what am I doing right, and how do I make small corrections to things I'm not doing so well? 28:35 And that gets me, that gets me down the path that I need to go down. Yeah. And we can lean into those strengths. The, the... 28:40 This allows me to, to help identify, again, what you're doing well, and can we continue to do that, and how do we continue doing that? Right. And, and that almost, that, that removes, you know, one component. 28:51 Like, that, that section of the puzzle is complete. Now we can focus on the other sections. So track and be honest about it, right? And then that gets us started in the right direction. All right, what's next? 29:02 Next, we have, uh, the blame game with age and/or hormones. Oh. If, if the refusal to track and there's a constant pushback to do that challenges me. Um, 29:19 the, ugh, God, the... It's, it's just I'm old now or I'm older now, and this is just so much harder for me than it is for anybody else. And the next thing that comes along with that is it's my hormones. Hormones. 29:30 The hor- hormone fear-mongering that's going on right now on the interwebs with all the stuff, right? We got the GLP-1s out there. We got all the other peptides out there. We got- Cortisol... 29:40 we got the c- the cortisol thing. Seems to have calmed down, because I think it's just getting snuffed out by, you know, HRT, you know, for women and for men. Menopause is a massive, you know, uh, topic right now. 29:53 Perimenopause, menopause. Yeah. It, it, it should have been for a long time, and it's just... So it's now hitting the airwaves and, you know, there's a lot of things happening sociopolitically around it. 30:01 Um, and we're, we're, we're, we're getting a lot more news about it. The bottom line on that, it was there's, there was not a lot of research. Way more research done on men than there was on women. 30:09 We're finding out some things now. Uh, we'll find out more as, as, as, uh, as, as we, as we go and as, as the studies get better and there's, there's more of them. 30:18 But this constant leaning on, "It's my hormones, and that's the problem," and that's almost directly related to age in most cases, drives me bonkers. 30:30 Because we are, we are trying to pick the thing that is almost always with re- with... We know age- It impacts hormone, hormones and hormone regulation. We- It's not make believe, yeah. It, it 100% does. 30:46 But [clears throat] if what we are trying to do is continually pick the thing that is the reason for why I'm not being successful, I'm not having dietary or fitness success, um, we are fighting a losing battle. 30:57 And unfortunately, that noise, right, and that constant messaging just floods our, our clients and people all the time, and they're, they're looking for answers in that. 31:09 And while there may be some, I, I, again, I'm just gonna go back to this. Your hormonal state is going to be directly related to your lifestyle, right? And your behaviors. 31:20 And the same fundamentals that apply to everybody. Every single person. 31:23 And so until we start to address those foundations, and again, maybe your hormones are a little less controllable, you know, without the use of medication or, you know, let's just say medical intervention, right? 31:35 Or whatever, your personal intervention with things that you can get online that are, you know, medically, um, regulated or- Derived, yeah [laughs]... or, or, or whatever else. 31:44 Uh, if, if we are, if we are constantly fighting that noise right now, it, it just seems to be a much more common, uh, conversation that's, that, that frustrates me because then I end up in this situation where I have to, I have to try to understand what that client's understanding of hormones and their age actually is, and that is such a sticky web to untangle and it frustrates me to no end. 32:08 And partly this is on me because I'm like, "You, that is your body, dude. You know? Like, you should understand how that thing works. Like, that is you." And so part... 32:17 Like I have to p- I have to pull back a little bit and go like, "How did you get to this point in your life without understanding, you know, some basic principles?" 32:24 And I'm not even talking about the really in-depth physiology. I'm just talking some basic principles, and some of those basic principles are related to nutrition and fitness, right? 32:32 And, and again, I've been doing this basically the majority of my life now, so I can't, I can't expect that they're gonna have a deeper level of, a, a, as, as deep or as broad as an understanding as I might have. 32:43 However, what ends up frustrating me is that they really don't have any idea, and they've farmed out their, their, their, their information and/or their health to somebody else expecting to get those answers without taking any time to dig in and kind of understand, again, at a very basic level, how they function. 33:02 And the... But yet it's one of those things that they immediately point a finger at and go, "This is the reason I am the way I am." Yeah. It creates a barrier that, you know, that people throw their hands up. 33:12 That, "Oh, no, none of these, none of these fundamentals, they don't apply to me anymore because of the way my body has changed, because of my age, because of my hormone status that I don't actually even understand, but it's just easy for me to say, 'Well, this isn't working, so that's m- that must be why.'" 33:28 But were, were you ever actually doing the thing in the first place? 33:33 'Cause I, I think that, that's where it has come up for me with clients where I know that they are working on the fundamentals and have been working on the fundamentals for an extended period- Mm-hmm... 33:44 of time and are bought into that and engaged in that. And then that point, maybe we're still not getting the results that we're looking for. 33:51 It's like, okay, maybe there's something else that we're not seeing here that is holding back these results or that is standing in the way. 33:57 Because now I, I have trust and you've demonstrated that you're handling the big rocks. You are, you know, taking care or being mindful of the fundamentals, and it's still not working. 34:09 Okay, now we might have to explore another pathway. Yeah. There, and there's, there's... I mean, in those fundamentals, there are many rabbit holes, right? And there are many, [sighs] 34:17 there are many pathways within each one of those fundamentals to go down, and that takes time. 34:22 Um, but again, the frustration comes in when you're talking to me about your hormones, but you haven't even had blood work done. So you don't... Like, what- Once again, just guessing. You're guessing. 34:30 Or maybe you have had blood work done, but you don't understand what that blood work says. And again, I don't expect people to have a deep level of understanding of what blood panels say and what that means for them. 34:40 Um, and I think p- part of my frustration with that is like, I think the medical community c- can and should be doing a much better job of educating their clients, but I also understand that that's not what it's built to do. 34:51 Um, and so, uh, uh, I'm constantly faced with that frustration on a regular basis and trying, you know, when people do reach that point where like, "Hey, we should get some blood work done for you. 35:00 You know, you should understand that better for yourself. You should talk to your physician," and yet then they do that. They get some very generic answers. Sometimes they get some really poor ones. 35:09 Sometimes they don't get any at all. Or they don't get all the information that they need- Yeah... because there are roadblocks in the way. Yeah. 35:15 The, uh, for many various reasons and, and they maybe don't even know how to advocate for themselves in, in terms of doing that. So, yet, again, we're pointing the finger at hormones and age. Look, 35:27 as we age, things change. Let's just, uh, there's, we can all agree on that. Noth- There's, there's no, there's no doubt of that. The, the, the problem with it is, is everybody does that differently. 35:37 So what your friend Mary's doing and how she's aged, she's the same age, right? You guys work at the same place. You guys do f- basically the same thing. She's a v- an entirely different individual. 35:48 And so what's going on for her is not necessarily, or it isn't what's going on for you. Not even not necessarily. It isn't what's going on for you. You have a v- You're, you're unique in that sense. 35:56 You're not a snowflake, but you are unique in the sense that your body is, is responding and doing things in a different way than somebody else's. 36:04 And until you understand what your body is doing, stop trying to figure out what worked for somebody else's body and apply it. 36:11 And oftentimes that comes to the, "Well, my, you know, my friend Mary, she's seeing this doctor and he gave her these things," or, "she gave her these things," right? 36:19 "And this is the thing that she's doing, and that was the answer for her for that 10-pound weight loss." Great. Good for her. That is not you. 36:26 And yet as coaches, we are constantly hearing these stories, and more specifically, it's the comparison game to other people my age. 36:33 Or when I was 35, now I'm 45, you know, I was able to do this and so I, I know if I just do that again, that's gonna work for me. Which it- Not necessarily... not necessarily. Yeah. And that, I mean- 36:45 That actually, I think, kind of, uh, l- leads us to maybe the next point, unless you had more- Well... 36:51 to say on that as far as when we hear these, you know, the, the comparison game or, you know, somebody reaches a frustration point and they wanna try something different. 37:00 They want to, they wanna deviate from the plan- [laughs]... um, because there's a new shiny thing that they heard about and they're like, "Oh, it's been three months. 37:08 I haven't re- I haven't gotten the results I'm looking for. Maybe we should try this other thing. What do you think about this other thing that I saw my friend doing?" Oh, God, the... 37:16 I think this, again, when I told you I had to take this break, I think, um, for as long as I've been in this, there's always been something, like, on the diet tribe side of things. 37:25 I think when I got in- when I got into this, the zone diet, if you remember that, uh, the Barry Sears- We talked about that... stuff like that. Yeah. That was a big deal, right? 37:32 And then it was Eat Right for Your Blood Type, right? That was another one that was, that was there. 37:36 And I d- I read all those books, and I, you know, I tried to consume all the things I could consume on it, but people were latching onto these things. So then there's the, the Mediterranean diet, right? 37:45 There's, uh, what's the other one I'm missing here? Um, it was based on the Med- Mediterranean diet. Oh, I forget what it's called. Um, it's, it's not coming to mind. Oh. Yeah. 37:55 My, my, my point being is there's always something, right? Yeah. There's always a diet tribe, and it's like, "If I just do this, I will, I will lose the weight. I will, I will be more fit. 38:04 I will feel more h- more healthy," whatever else. Uh, the, the bottom line there is there's truth in all that, and almost all of those things were dependent on a caloric deficit, right, at the end of the day. 38:13 And that's why s- that's why people lose weight. 38:16 The point, the point of this is, is it's never consistent long enough, or it's very rarely consistent long enough to be able to say whether this is or isn't the right thing for you, or whether this is or isn't maybe the, more specifically, the right formula for you in order to go this direction. 38:31 Now, there's parts of this formula if you're trying to lose weight that are gonna be true across all of these, which is if you're trying to lose weight, you gotta be in a caloric deficit. Yeah. 38:38 But we have to have a starting point, which goes back to tracking. Yeah. Like, where are we starting this deficit from, right? Mm-hmm. And where are we trying to go long-term? 38:45 And what, what does this set up, set us up for in terms of longer t- both short and long-term results? And both of those are important. But the "I'm not getting the result I want in this pre, uh, 38:59 conceived notion of time that I should be getting it in," and then wanting to scrap everything, throw the baby out with the bathwater, and move to the next thing- Yeah, exactly... 39:09 absolutely, uh, uh, dude, it rubs me, it rubs me raw because I just, I sit back and I scratch my head and I go, "We're not even doing the thing that we both agreed-" To, to begin with, yeah... 39:20 to begin with, after we went through this education, this awareness process, this enlightenment process, and this, 'Hey, this is the thing that we need to do for a while before we, we know what to do next.'" 39:31 It's like, um, uh, th- look at this, like the medical pr- profession thing. If you've ever had, um, or in the, the medical side of things, if you ever had, like, a- an issue, like, um, you hurt the knee. 39:41 Your knee's hurting, right? Like, whatever the... Maybe you had an acute injury, right? Maybe you were out skiing, right? Where it's in the wintertime now. You're out skiing and, and you hurt your knee. 39:49 Fell down, went boom, and the knee hurts now. And now it's everybody goes to Google and, like, what could this be? And obviously, horrible, horrible place to go to, and to, to be self-diagnosing what your issue is. 40:05 Next thing you do is you go to see, like, your, your primary care physician, right? Because that's the first in line in whatever medical insurance you have. 40:11 You see that primary care physician who is not, doesn't specialize in this, but can give you sort of a ballpark maybe or, or some kind of an idea of what these things could be based on a basic assessment. 40:22 I'd be very cautious with this, but generally, the good ones are gonna go, "You know what? What we probably need to do is get you with somebody that can have a closer look at this that specializes in knees." 40:33 So he's gonna send you maybe to an orthopedic, you know, person, somebody, maybe a surgeon or, or some type of an osteopath that's gonna get in there and maybe have a tougher look. 40:43 And that, that person may get a little closer, right? In terms of that compass, may get a little closer based on a hands-on assessment and digs a little deeper. Starting to zero in, yeah. Yeah. 40:51 So now we're starting to get a little closer, but th- they, they might call for, "Hey, well, let's get an X-ray and see what's going on there." 40:56 And then an X-ray turns maybe, well, this kinda gives us some idea, but we will, we'll know more if we get an MRI. So we dig a little bit deeper into it, and we look at that. 41:04 And both of those things combined can give you, plus the assessment and the evaluation that you got, can give you a little bit better idea. But oftentimes, and I've had my own personal experiences with this, where 41:16 we got an idea, but the only way for us to really know is to actually get in there and see the thing, right? And so we know through these, through this imagery that this, this is a problem and we need to fix that. 41:25 But oftentimes when they get in there, they go, "Shit, that thing look way worse than I, than it, than the film showed," right? Or sometimes it can be like, "This isn't as bad as what we, we originally thought. 41:34 It was a much minor, much more minor than, than we thought." They make a repair. They do whatever they do, and they come out the other side. 41:41 The reason I'm, I'm putting all this out in is the only way to get through each step in the process, right, is to go through the steps in the process. I can't know where to go next until I do the first thing, right? 41:53 And I can't make too many assumptions. There can't be too many absolutes without then going to the next thing to confirm, right? 42:00 And then once I've confirmed with that, then there may be a deeper dive that I need to take. Again, going back to blood work, all right? Well, here's some things that the blood work... 42:08 This is the data, is the data showing us, but what are the symptoms, right? How are the, how, how are you feeling? What are the other things that are showing up? 42:15 Which gets us closer and closer and closer to finding out what the actual issue is. 42:19 So I think, a- again, I'm, I'm running on a little bit here, but going back to this is, like, if you go, "Well, it's not actually the meniscus. We think it's the ACL." 42:28 But we haven't taken any film on this, and now we're gonna go through some type of ACL rehab or surgery protocol. 42:35 And worse, we're gonna get in there and we're gonna do surgery on an ACL that doesn't need ACL surgery because it was a meniscus thing. Like, what are we doing here? It's the same thing on the nutrition side. 42:44 Yeah, or if, you know, yeah, you're, you're going through that process and you're like, "Oh, you know, getting this MRI appointment, this is taking too long. 42:53 I'm gonna go ahead and just follow these YouTube videos for this knee rehab guy." [laughs] That's awesome. Like, yeah, I'm just na- I'm just, "You know, th- this will fix my knee. This video says it'll fix my... 43:02 How about we try this?" Well, did you actually get, like, a firm diagnosis? Well, no, 'cause it was taking too long. Um, so I, I'll just... Wh- whatever, we can do that later. Scrap the plan. Yeah. Yeah. 43:11 We'll, we'll just do this, 'cause this, this seems to help these other people. Um, yeah, you're, you're abandoning the plan when you haven't even, uh- Executed... yeah, you haven't executed the plan yet. Yeah. 43:22 Uh, and so going back to, like, diatribes and things like that, like, it just makes it easier, uh, for... with, with all the things that are out there. 43:29 Like, and again, they're seeing the quote unquote successes that other people have had on [laughs] YouTube. I, I actually never th-... Man, I never thought of that, Steve. Like, I mean, I have, but it... 43:38 I'd never thought of it that way about like, yeah, you're sh- you should be getting an MRI, but it's taking too long. So, like, are you... Worse yet, you have a heart condition, right? Uh, personal sto- personal thing. 43:50 Had a client, heart condition pops up, dude's gotta wait, and it's pretty serious, dude's gotta wait four weeks to go see the, the cardiologist 'cause they're that backed up. 43:59 So I think that t- tells you a little bit about the health of America and where they are right now. But in the meantime, like, what's he supposed to do, right? What do you think he's do- what do you think he's doing? 44:09 Internet. Internet all day, and it's, it's nothing but putting the fear of God into him, you know, on a, on a regular basis with... 44:17 And then what is that, ugh, yeah, the YouTube thing, and the self-diagnosis, and the scrapping the plan. 44:24 I think a lot of people listening to this have either done it or they know somebody that does this pretty constantly. 44:29 And if you're a coach, you know exactly what we're talking about, because we deal with this on a regular basis. It's a really good way of looking at it, man. 44:35 So if you haven't actually executed the things, right, that we sat down, we talked about, we, we tried to give you in little bits, right? 44:42 So we weren't trying to overwhelm you with too many things so that we could get a better idea of what direction we're actually moving, you know, on this map, and then how to narrow that down so that we don't have to take too many side treks to get to where you wanna go, but you refuse to do that, or you're getting impatient, or, or whatever else. 45:00 I think those are natural things, to be a little impatient, to be a little frustrated, or whatever else. 45:04 But if you don't have it, the ability to deal with that, and then be, again, come back and be honest about it, "Let's talk about it. 45:09 Let's, let's see what's going on," through a, through a, through a check-in and be, again, going back to tracking, being honest about what we're actually doing. 45:17 You're setting yourself up for failure, ultimately setting the cl- the, the coach up for failure, and we know where that goes. 45:23 This leads to more frustration, and I think probably one of the next things that comes up is probably the finger-pointing. I don't know. Yeah. What's the next one on that list? 45:30 Uh, so the next one is, uh, commitments to the workouts, but not nutrition. Oh, yeah. Which, yeah, I think that one, um, you know... And I've said this before, the exercise component is easier, I think. 45:47 I, I would agree 100%. I- I- it is easier. It's taking place in a controlled environment. It is a short period of time. 45:55 You know, uh, if I'm, you know, "Oh, yeah, that, that's m- I can come to the gym two to three hours per week. 46:01 If I'm working with a coach, I have somebody standing right there next to me, helping me execute the entire workout, walking me through the entire workout. 46:09 I get an immediate, you know, uh, an immediate physical feeling or quote, unquote result of the workout that I just did. I feel satisfied." And then there's another 165 hours per week o- of, of the jungle. Mm-hmm. 46:23 Um, so I think that, the, you know, the... There are definitely, you know, and yes, you should be com- committed to your workouts, but I think a lot of folks will, you know, they'll come to me like, "But I'm working out. 46:34 I'm working out all the time. I'm doing all my workouts. Why am I not seeing the results that I'm looking for?" Because you're not... Because there's so much other time for things to go wrong. Right. 46:43 A- a- and, and, and there's so many other variables, um, outside of this controlled workout environment. Yeah, you, you, you... The way you stated that, though, I would look at it this way, too. 46:52 Here's another way to reframe this, and that is there's all these other hours or days in the week, hours in the day, you know, days in the month, whatever, for things to go wrong. 47:02 That also means there's so many other things that can be going right. Right? And, and, and it... 47:07 A lot of people, I think, just try to stack on, like, "I have to do all the things right all the time," when the reality of it is, it's just like in the workout. You know, like, not... 47:15 Even if you, you, you didn't, you didn't quite complete all the reps and the sets that you were supposed to s- you were supposed to complete, there's still benefit in making sure you're getting done what needs to get done, right? 47:28 Again, you want more efficiency, right? You m- want more effectiveness? Then there needs to be intention with all of those things. But again, it doesn't necessarily have to be perfect. 47:37 And going back to the workout thing, going back to the knowns and the control en- con- control environment. 47:42 From, like, a personalization perspective, I think, you know, like, conventionally, we kind of know, like, there are some basic things to do in the gym that will get you some basic results. 47:52 As you get further down the line, those, those, uh, results, or, that you're trying to get become more refined or more specific the higher your training age gets. 48:00 You know, the, the higher levels you're trying to achieve, things need to be dialed in a little tighter and a little tighter and a little tighter. But the, but generally speaking, you're right. 48:09 It's very easy to do, and it's not hard to get at that information. And for God's sakes, all the information that we ever give on this thing is out there. It's never novel. We're not inventing anything. 48:18 It's not proprietary. It's all free on the internet. That's the problem, right? [laughs] For, I, I think for a lot of people. 48:24 But the, the making the commitment to the workout and thinking that you're doing the work all the time when what you're really talking about doing is for a couple of days a week, I did the nutrition work. 48:36 For three of those days, which was when my planned workout schedule is, I nailed that, man. Yeah. I did that 100%. 48:42 But if you only did three days a week, right, that's, like, almost 60% of the rest of the days during the week on the nutrition side that you weren't even close, right? 48:51 Or maybe you were sort of close, but you weren't doing it. You weren't executing it. 48:56 And, and so when you break it down, like, in, in terms of the concept of in- individuality and the complexity on the nutrition or dietary success side, we already talked about, there's a lot of things going on here. 49:05 Um, if you're off 60%, right, 'cause you did three days instead of four, instead of seven, or three days instead of six. 49:13 Like, each day you cut off, you cut off a s- a significant percentage of the consistency and the things that you needed to be doing semi-right in order to get the direction you wanted to go. 49:23 And so, again, there's this-... uh, misplaced energy was like, "Yeah, I'm doing the workouts. I got sweaty today," you know? Like, "I got tired. I'm sore." 49:32 Like, all those good things, quote-unquote good things that come along with, you know, "I chased the cortisol. I felt," you know, you know, "At the end of that workout I felt good. I felt tired, but not exhausted. 49:41 Like, I'm doing all the right things here." Yet you're not putting the same effort. Or l- first off, you're not, you're not making the same commitment. 49:49 You're not putting the same effort and you're not paying as close attention to the nutrition side. 49:53 So there's this weird kind of relationship people have with, like, "If I'm doing the workouts and I'm kind of just okay, you know, on the nutrition side, I should be getting the result, result that I, that I want." 50:04 Not quite. No. [laughs] Not true. Yeah. [laughs] Right? It's the opposite. 50:07 Like, I would actually, in most cases, rather have you doing maybe two workouts a week and staying consistent five to six days a week on the nutrition side, and I bet you would see two times the result of whatever it is you're trying to achieve. 50:19 It's gonna improve the quality of those workouts. Yeah. 'Cause I can adjust for you in the gym, right? To make up for what you wouldn't get in that third day if I was only gonna see you two days. 50:29 Well, we can, we can make some adjustments. I can toggle some switches and turn some dials here. Do a little bit more of this, little bit less of that. Keep the cal- caloric burn where we want it to wanna keep it. 50:37 Make sure we're hitting the right intensity levels, the right amount of volume. I can, I can kinda shape-shift things around in that hour that I have to spend with you two days a week. Um, versus 50:48 y- it's much less forgiving on those other 23 hours of the, of the day or the 165 hours in the week. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that, and I mean, again, I, I don't, I don't blame people for it. 50:58 And again, I, I want, you know, I, I, I want you to be consistent with your workouts. But it, it... Again, when we think about the grand scheme, it's such a small percentage. 51:09 It, it really is such a small percentage of the whole, like if we go back to the puzzle. That's just a couple of the pieces. 51:15 Um, they might be kinda, you know, uh, pieces that if you- they're missing, then you can't complete the puzzle. Mm-hmm. Um, but they're only a small percentage of, um, you know, o- of the whole formula. 51:27 So and I think that, that goes back to, you know, the nutrition side of things being a much bigger commitment. Mm-hmm. 51:34 And something that follows you everywhere, and something that involves far more variables, and it's a much less controlled environment. 51:40 It follows you not only at what you're having at, for breakfast at home, but your social engagement. Yeah. But your family engagement, but this event, that event, this that came up. 51:50 There, there's a lot more room, frankly, for failure there. Um, and it, uh, a- and it, and it requires a much higher level of awareness on a much more consistent basis. Yeah. 52:01 The word I would, the word I would use is consciousness. Yeah. Like, and I think that you can easily become unconscious to the work that you're not doing when you are doing really well in this other thing. 52:11 Like, oh, you're doing your fricking cold plunges, and you're getting your red light, [laughs] and you're taking your supplements, and you're getting your three or four workouts a w- a week done. 52:19 But the, the percentage of those things, like even add it all up for most people, most people that we work with, the larger percentage still l- lies in the nut- in the nutrition and the recovery, uh, you know, components. 52:33 When I, when we talk about sleep. So I think about nutrition and sleep even trumping exercise in a lot of ways. Uh, and, and I mean that sort of facetiously. 52:41 But it can for a lot of people, when we really start to look at like what percentages actually contribute to the result that you're looking to, you're looking to get here. And where are we missing? 52:50 Because to your point, like, it's very unforgiving. It's very unfor- f- it's very unforgiving through the, through the time of the week. So again, just in wrapping that one up. 52:58 Just a- again, like keep in mind, keep in p- in, in mind or keep the perspective that that work that you do in the gym is a very small percentage of the time. 53:09 The rest of the time, the other 23 hours of the day, need to be dedicated to the recovery components, which is largely in due, due, gonna be due to the nutrition as well as the sleep and r- you know, recovery that happens there component. 53:22 And those things to, those things tie hand-in-hand. So if I'm not sleeping well, even if I'm just doing good on the nutrition side of things, like, that sleep's gonna impact the nutrition again. 53:30 Still pieces that are missing. There's this, this sticky web. So number five, uh, lack of trust in the coach. Yeah. So, like, whose fault is that? [laughs] Right? 53:42 Like, that's the question I think that everybody should be asking. But I think what this really boils down to is you came to me for help. Um, we sat, we talked about how that might look. 53:52 Um, we, we got some agreement on some things. We've trudged through a couple of things together. 53:57 Yet there's still pushback and distrust in what the coach is telling me or, or guiding me to do to get this result that I'm looking for. And, um, 54:08 man, like, as hard as you try sometimes as a coach, I mean, I've sat back on the other end of that phone or the other end of the couch or in the other chair, the other end of the screen just looking at this person going, "Why do I feel like [laughs] 54:22 why do I feel like I felt when I was 16 and my mom asked me, 'What time did you get home last night?' when my curfew was 11:00? And I know I walked in the door at 11:15, and I'm telling her 11:00." Yeah. [laughs] Right? 54:35 Yeah. [laughs] And she just sits there and looks at me with that long, uncomfortable silence, right? And then the, [laughs] the guilt would, the guilt would p- the guilt would start to kinda come. 54:43 "All right, well, maybe it was like 11:05." [laughs] And she just goes, "Mm-hmm." "All right, well, maybe it was more like 10 after. It was like, it was like 10 after when I got home." She's like, "Mm-hmm." Yeah. 54:54 [laughs] And I go, "All right, fucking fine. It was 11:15. I was late. I was late." [laughs] And then she didn't have to say a word. Yeah. Right? 54:59 But it, that's the way I s- I, I see some clients starting to react to, like, when you start asking questions, you know, about the things that they're doing. 55:07 And, and you're having this conversation about what they are or they're not doing. And they're leaving little bits of, of, of information out. 55:14 And that, th- th- those little bits of information, when you look at it as a coach, like- First off, I have to trust that you're giving me all the information All I can go off of is what you're telling me. Yeah. 55:24 I mean, we're very- I'm not at your house watching you eat... going back to the tracking, like, we're very data-driven. 55:28 Like, I, I can't be there with you 23 hours a day like I can be for your one-hour, you know, training session. So I know what you did. I watched you do it. Yeah. Like, I guided you. I was standing right there. Yeah... 55:38 I was standing right there. Like, I know what you did. I know what you didn't do. I know where you succeeded. I know where you failed, you know? And I mean those in positive ways. 55:45 Like, those are important things, right, w- when we're training on the fitness floor. 55:49 But my, my point being is, like, if, if I have to question, like, what you're telling me is honest or truthful, like, then I have to... Then I... It comes down to this trust factor. 55:58 Like, now I'm not sure I'm fully bought into what this client is giving me. That doesn't put either of us in a very good position. And the question I would ask is, why is that? Why is that the case? Like, what are... 56:10 What didn't I do? And I always look at myself first. Like, what didn't I do? What have I done to potentially make this person uncomfortable or not trust me to tell me the things? I don't know. 56:20 I, I, I have some answers, but I'm curious what yours are. Yeah. I mean, my... Yeah. I, I don't wanna create that dynamic where, you know, I, I am the, you know, the principal and, and you're- Mm-hmm... 56:31 pulled into my office a- and you're... You don't wanna get in trouble. Mm-hmm. That kind of thing. 56:35 So I mean, I try to, like you said, I try to set that expectation early on that, you know, don't withhold things from me because you think that you're gonna, like, get my wrath or something- Yeah... 56:48 like that, that I'm gonna, like, get on you about it. Um, so you didn't track that thing. So, "Oh, I, I don't want my coach to see that." 56:53 Again, like the teenager that's trying to hide the details from their parents kind of thing. Right. Um, so, you know, and I, I, I actually had this conversation with somebody, uh, just, yeah, last week, I believe. 57:05 They're gonna be going on vacation and, uh, out of the country, and we're talking a little bit about how to prepare for that. 57:12 And, and I'm asking the typical types of questions that I do, um, when somebody's going on vacation. Like, is this... Do you see this as, like, you just wanna let it loose? So you just wanna go full vacation mode? 57:22 Like, how, how much do you want to stay on track during this vacation? And that, you know, part of it came in, um, you know, alcohol consumption. Mm-hmm. 57:31 A- and again, that can be something that people wanna withhold as far as, like, how much- The shame. Yeah... yeah... the shame associated. Yeah. And I, and I asked, you know- Or guilt... "Okay. 57:38 Well, you know, you're, you're looking forward to this trip. You're going with friends." This is a, a younger client in her early 20s. So people in their early 20s, they like to party. Yep. 57:47 Um, and I was just asking, like, what, you know, "Where do you think, like, alcohol consumption's gonna be?" And, and, and even when I asked that question, I could kinda tell that there was a little bit of hesitation. 57:58 Like, "Oh, I don't, I don't really want, you know, I don't really wanna tell you the truth." 58:02 Um, and, uh, you know, she said, like, "Oh, yeah, you know, uh, I'm, I'm probably going to drink and, you know, I might get after it, like, one night type of thing." Mm-hmm. And I was like, "Okay. 58:12 Yeah, that sounds like a, you know, a fair answer." And I, I just reiterated to her. I was like, "You could've told me, 'I plan to get shit-faced five nights in a row.'" Yep. Mm-hmm. That's fine. 58:20 Like- If that's the truth- Yeah... just tell me the truth. Yeah. Just tell me the truth, and we can plan accordingly. We can work- [laughs] Yeah. We can work with this. Yeah. Yeah. I'm- Do our best. 58:27 It's not awesome- [laughs]... but we'll work with this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's not... I'm, I'm really trying my best to not come from a place of judgment with people who are coming to me for help. 58:38 Like, that's, that, you know... Yeah, I, I'm not here to shame you when you're coming to me for help. You're coming to me for help because you need it. Yeah. 58:45 So I think for me, like, when I look at this, and this is my answer to that, I think people think of this as consequences. Like, what are the consequences to my actions? 58:52 And the consequences, what's the consequence of me telling my... Being completely truthful and honest with, with my, with my coach and trusting them that they're not gonna shame me, you know, or whatever else? Yeah. 59:02 Oh, yeah, or, or wag their finger at me. Yeah. And I think this comes from, you know, again, previous experience, you know, whatever that happens to be. 59:09 And again, there's, there's deep-rooted things, the self-loathing, the guilt, the shame, you know, the stuff that comes along with it. 59:14 And the thing, you know, that comes along with that, obviously in the nutrition, you know, the, the, the, the coach to client relationship is, is, like, yeah, I'm gonna let this person down. Like, I'm... 59:24 You're letting me down. Yeah. Or I'll be letting you down- Yeah... as, as my client. And I think I can respect that. I really can. Um- Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna disappoint them, yeah. 59:33 But what is the true consequence to this? Uh, and the, the consequences is, like, I'm not going to be disappointed in you. Like, um, I... But what I am gonna be is real with you- Mm... ab- about it. 59:44 And I, uh, that's what I want for my clients to get from me, is I'm gonna be very honest with you. I'm gonna be very transparent. I'm gonna be very upfront with you about what that is. 59:52 So if you're gonna get shit-faced five nights, you know, on your, on your vacation, that's fine. Okay. Well, let's work with that. How do we, how do we, how do we work through this, this together? 1:00:01 And let me set you up for what some of the things that you should expect would be. Like, I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Not the cops. Yeah. [laughs] I'm, I'm not your parent. Yeah. 1:00:13 Like, I am not your parent. I am your coach. I am here to guide you through what you should reasonably expect from this. 'Cause... And if I'm not doing that as a coach, then I'm not being honest with myself or with them. 1:00:23 So it's a two-way street. But again, the consequence is you don't get the result that you want, right? And that's on you. That's not on me, right? I don't... There are no consequences for me. 1:00:35 The consequence for me is that you blame me for, for some- Yeah... weird reason. Yeah. 1:00:38 And again, at, at this point for me, like, at, at this point in my life and career, like, I, I don't, I don't- Not taking that to heart. Yeah... I'm not taking that to heart. Like, you can blame me all you want. 1:00:47 Like, look, you're an adult. You make your own decisions. Um, you know, going back to my, you know, my, my story about my mom and coming home late or, you know, or whatever else. 1:00:56 Like, the consequence for me for not being honest was, for me, I remember this, was disappointing my mom. Like, I didn't tell my mom the truth. That was... 1:01:04 And that's the number one rule in my house with, with my stepdaughter now, is, like, we do not lie, right? [laughs] Yeah. We, we, we are honest. The... But with, with, with honesty comes... accountability, right? 1:01:18 And whether you're honest with me or you lie to me, there's going to be accountability one way or another. But accountability isn't a bad thing, right? 1:01:26 That's probably why you're talking to me or why I'm your coach in the first place, is that we have some accountability. 1:01:31 So let's just talk about what that is and set the groundwork for how to go through this situation and how to come out the other side, right? 1:01:40 But you've got to be upfront with me, and you've got to trust me that I'm going to do that for you. 1:01:45 So I think this goes all the way back to the beginning in setting a strong foundation for, you know, that, that relationship that you build with your client, and leading them through the steps, getting them suc- suc- some success. 1:01:54 Again, talking about the, the things that they are doing well, and probably front-loading more of that than all the things that they're doing wrong, because I think it's human nature to look at, like, all the things that I'm doing wrong. 1:02:05 This is why I'm unhappy. Negativity bias, yeah. Yeah, this is... Exactly. I think that's, that's just, it's hard-coded in us, in most people. 1:02:12 Um, and I think some of it's nurture, in that people have been told they've done a good job when they haven't done a good job. Yeah. Right? Um, you know, they've been given a participation award. 1:02:21 Well, participation awards don't count in your health and fitness. They don't, right? They are a part of the process. 1:02:28 You may get a couple of those along the way, but they aren't the things that lead, lead, lead to the long-term or s- success, particularly when it comes to nutrition and dietary success. 1:02:37 Like, participa- you, you can't just be along for the ride, because nobody else is steering that boat or steering that, that bus, man. You are. 1:02:45 So if you can't be honest about that, right, and if you don't trust, you know, the... 1:02:51 If, if you're constantly trusting somebody else just to be the driver, then this is gonna be a problem for you, because I can't be there for you all the time. Yeah. So- What happens when I'm not around? 1:03:00 Yeah, what happens when I'm not around? So again, going back to the accountability piece and the whatever feelings you might be feeling about it, think about that. 1:03:06 Like, what's the consequence of me not being honest here? Um, the consequence is you don't get the result that you want. 1:03:12 Um, and if for whatever moment you feel like you've avoided the shame, the guilt, the whatever else, I promise you, [laughs] I promise you, I guarantee it, this is going to come up later when this comes out, right? 1:03:26 Because again, going back to we're, we, we, we are largely data-driven as coaches. 1:03:31 I'm over here trying to adjust calories for, or help you adjust calories, make food choices in certain situations, helping you with menu choices. I'm getting your text messages. 1:03:41 I'm looking at your, your, your calorie tracking. I'm looking at your, your calorie expenditure because you've got your, your wearable device- Device hooked up. Yeah... hooked up. You're tracking all that stuff. 1:03:50 I am dependent on that information to help make educated and informed decisions. 1:03:54 So if you're not informing me because for whatever reason you don't trust me that I'm not going to handle your indiscretion or whatever well, um, then the data only does me so much good. Mm-hmm. 1:04:07 And then, then we're at a point, like, where... And I found this, this, this in my, in my own case, which as a, as a coach, where I'm like, "Hold on a second here." Like, "This math ain't mathing." Yeah. 1:04:18 [laughs] Like, what's going on? This person's telling me this. This person's telling me that. Like, they're writing this down. They're sharing this with me. Um, when I, I'm checking in on a regular basis. 1:04:28 We're going through all the steps in the process here. This isn't a blood work issue. This isn't an age issue. This isn't these other things. Looking at it like, I don't think... If... 1:04:36 God's- There's something missing here, yeah... something missing here, right? There's something missing here. 1:04:39 Well, as we were looking at this guy's post earlier, I'm like, "Oh, they didn't tell me that they ate, like, a fucking raccoon for three days." Yeah. [laughs] Right? 1:04:46 Like, like, there's, this just, this, this isn't, this isn't adding up. And then this creates now a barrier of me now having to get awkward, the conversation. Like, "Listen, 1:04:55 Steven," like, "There's some, there's some things I have some questions about," right? And if you weren't honest with me... Like, if I lied to my mom and she let me get away with it, then what did I do the next time? 1:05:05 You lied again. Oh, I lied again. Yeah. [laughs] Right? Like, I lied again, right? That's, that's the behavior that you create in that process. 1:05:13 So again, if you're not being honest and you're not trusting your coach enough to be honest with them, then what this thing is built on is a very weak foundation, and you're pr- you're probably setting yourbo- both of your- yourselves up for, for failure in the long run, and then the blame game can happen and things like that, finger-pointing and whatever. 1:05:29 I'm not in the business of calling a person a liar, but I am in the business of being like, "I just want to be clear on a few things." Yeah. Right? And asking some very direct questions. 1:05:37 And I get where, like, that position of authority, you know, comes in at, at some level. And, um, again, the guilt, the shame, the self-loathing, everything kinda... 1:05:46 And then some weird behavior can start happening, and that gets, going back to the top of this, that gets really annoying. Like, I don't like that, right? 1:05:53 Because now you're putting me in a position to have to make guesses, and that's not what I do. I don't like to make guesses. 1:05:59 I like to have information, and I like to be able to make informed decisions based on the information that I have, and that's what I want for you so that you can go forward doing that. 1:06:07 So without build- building that up anymore, that's kinda my take on the whole trust factor. Yeah. 1:06:12 Yeah, I mean, I j- I think we, we've talked a l- you know, a good bit now about kind of, like, withholding information as far as a, as far as a lack of trust. 1:06:21 An- another component of that lack of trust is not executing on those informed recommendations- Ugh... that I'm making- Yeah. [laughs]... 1:06:31 a- and not trusting that I am making the best recommendation for you a- and having a, a lack, we'll call it a lack of faith, um, in- Mm... 1:06:42 what I'm recommending that you do, um, when I am the one that you're coming to for help. You know? 1:06:47 That, that, y- I need you to have trust and faith that I am working in your best interest, but again, I can't do it for you. Yeah. 1:06:55 So, I mean, one thing that we talked a little bit about, you know, uh, off, off air was, um, one that comes up is, like, the carb phobia. Oh, God, yeah. Um- That's, that's another huge one for me... 1:07:06 and, and that can be a big obstacle for a lot of people who have been drilled this idea that carbs make me fat. Carb's the enemy. They're poison. How do, how do I lose weight? Stop eating bread. 1:07:17 Oh, well, I stopped eating bread. That's always- "How are you working on losing weight?" "Oh, I stopped eating bread." Yeah. Yeah, it's all, it's, it's the bread. Um, what's the best type of bread I should be eating? 1:07:26 'Cause I know it's this bread that's sa- that's sabotaging me. But just generally speaking, you know, making that recommendation to some individuals, like n- you actually need to eat more carbohydrate. Mm. 1:07:37 And this is just one specific example. It could also be on, like, the protein side of things, like, uh, I just, that's just too much protein. The protein that you're re- that's just too much. 1:07:46 I, I, I, I think you're off base with that recommendation. I just, I can't do that. I'm like, "Well, who's the expert here?" Yeah. 1:07:51 Well, so [laughs] you mentioned the term faith, and so when, when I think of that word, I think of the, the term religion. Mm-hmm. Right? And I think of being bought into a belief system, uh, whatever that is. 1:08:02 Um, and I am not here to judge you on your belief system, but I will question it. 1:08:07 Like, and when I get into the faith-based conversations with people, I'm very curious to understand, like, what is their depth in terms of why they believe the things that they do and, and how it is that they're practicing them and, you know, what about? 1:08:21 You know, there's always a "but what about," you know- Yeah. [laughs]... kind of question. Yeah. What about this context, or what about this pers- specific example? 1:08:29 And to watch people kinda n- try to navigate through there, and I think the ones that have a, that don't have a very, uh, a super-- They have a lot of faith, but they don't necessarily have a depth of knowledge as to why that faith is, you know- The blind faith, yeah... 1:08:40 why they've subscribed to that. It's kind of a little bit blind. Um, yeah, that becomes a little bit of an issue. And so when we're talking about, like, carbohydrate or diet tribes, you know, or, you know, uh, 1:08:53 diet tribes, and when I say that, I, uh, there's so many. I mean, we, you, you mentioned the carnivore thing. There's... I mentioned the zone diet, which is an old... People probably don't even know what that is anymore. 1:09:02 Um, but again, like being, having a pho- a phobia around carbohydrate and why they believe the wh- what they believe. 1:09:09 And, and, and again, I think all, all these examples, again, going back to faith, religion, carbohydrate, right? [laughs] Try to tie, tie, tie, tie this all together. Straight through line there, yeah. 1:09:17 It really comes down to, to an in-depth knowledge. 1:09:20 And again, going back to my frustration with people blaming their age and their hormones without an understanding of where their current levels are or even a basic understanding of how their body works, yet they are, they dig in, and they just absolutely grasp on too hard things like, "It's carbohydrate and I need to cut that, I need to cut that out, and that's the answer." 1:09:40 And why do they feel that way? Some of it's experiential. You know, they may have done that in the past, and they lost some weight for a period of time until they didn't, and now they're back in front of you- Yeah... 1:09:49 you know, again, or they're in front of you for the first time. Um, but they, they're, they're, they're latched on hard to these things, and we're trying to break them out of a belief system. 1:09:58 Um, it's much different than trying to break something out of a, like, a religious belief, right? Mm. Or f- you know, a faith. 1:10:03 But it, it still has to do with faith and then ultimately having faith in you as the coach and why I'm asking the questions that I'm asking to really try to help understand better, like, what is your understanding of this? 1:10:15 Just like I collect data to, to, to understand what adjustments we need to make, when you give me that information, it puts me in a position to maybe be able to answer that question, give you some information, give you some perspective in a way that's good for you based on the relationship that we've es- we've established. 1:10:32 For some people, it's a lotta detail. I mean, we, we, we share a client, right? Mm. Yeah. Uh, we share a client here. That dude is detail-oriented. He wants to know all the things. Mm-hmm. All the time, right? 1:10:43 And he's, he's now starting to, because he has more detail, he starts to ask more s- He's asking more specific questions, and he's realizing and having more awareness of the things that he is doing or was doing now, or was doing then and is doing now, and how those contribute to one another. 1:10:59 And so, I, I, I think for me, 'cause I was, I, I actually, I took him over on the fitness side. He's still, you're still coaching him on the nutrition side. 1:11:07 But for me, it took me a little while, like, to develop that trust, right? I was like, "Okay," and what did that ta- It took weeks, right? 1:11:14 To, in order to, not, not just in the time that I meet with him on the floor, but the data started to show up. Like, "Okay, man, so we had this l- we had this little, this little glitch in the thing. 1:11:25 Here's where I think we're at right now, and we needed to see this. This isn't a bad thing. Like, we had a little down here and a little up here over, over here, and so we were able to, like... 1:11:34 Now Steven and I are in a much better position to be making some much more informed decisions on what you're doing." But my point is that took time, right? To develop. To, to build that trust in your recommendation. 1:11:44 Yeah, to build that, and, and, and what that meant was sometimes giving up a little bit of the, "Well, I think I need to do this." 1:11:49 Goes back to some of the comparison things that we were talking about, the comparison game. 1:11:52 But it goes back to, again, having this, this, uh, you know, this kinda disconnecting from what you believe to be true for so long, right? I'm not telling you you're dumb for not understanding this, right? 1:12:07 I'm not trying to, to expose you for, you know... I don't expect you to know all the things. What I need you to do is just listen to me for a second. 1:12:15 On the off chance that I m- might know what the hell I'm talking about. Yeah. [laughs] Exactly. Just on the, on the off chance- Yeah... just hear me out. The, the term now is just hear me out. Yeah. Right? 1:12:24 Let's just talk about this thing. And when you see that light bulb go on, right? As a coach, that's when you know you've started to make a little bit of progress, and it's not like the, "Ah, gotcha." Yeah. Right? 1:12:34 I told you so. Yeah. It can't be that. It has to be like, "Okay, now that we've done this, let me, let's talk about what this means and what this could mean in the future." 1:12:43 And there's always different paths that can go down. Well, we've made this adjustment. Now one of three things could happen. Maybe that's the conversation you're having. 1:12:50 So be prepared for that when we get to the next conversation about how to, how to examine this, right? Rather than reaching back to something, you know, some, some belief system or something in the past. 1:13:01 'Cause I'm not trying to change your belief. I'm trying to lead you down to the path, pathway where you understand where that belief system may be a little flawed- Mm-hmm... 1:13:09 or may be correct or may lie somewhere in between. 1:13:12 Yeah, and that, that can be a little bit of a delicate dance in terms of, yeah, like you said- I don't ever want, uh, you know, someone that I'm working with to feel dumb- Yep... 1:13:21 or, or to condescend them, or like, you know, they, they have a certain belief about, you know, "I should be doing X, Y, and Z," and I'm like, "That plan is stupid." Yep. [laughs] "Listen to me." 1:13:32 [laughs] Like- That, that's always a great place to start, right? Yeah, that, I mean, while I may have some of those thoughts- [laughs] Likewise. Yeah... 1:13:38 like, like you said, it, it, it takes some, you know, some initial exploration. Like, "Okay, you think you should be doing X, Y, and Z. Why? What, what's your rationale there?" Yeah. "Where, where is that coming from? 1:13:49 Where did you hear that? Why do you believe that that is what you should do?" You know, start by asking questions versus condescending and being like, "Uh, that, that's stupid. That's not what you should be doing." Yeah. 1:13:59 "Stop all that business right now." Yeah, like- Yeah, like, "Shut up. Listen to me. I'm right. You're wrong. I'm the expert. You're the peasant." Um, you know, that, that's not a good way to go about it. 1:14:08 You know, and I think that's kind of like when you look in the world of social media and what people are being fed on a, on a regular basis, it's exactly that approach. 1:14:14 It's like, "Here's all the things that you're doing wrong and why you're an idiot." Yeah. Right? "And why if you don't do these things right now, you're gonna continue to fail and be that idiot," right? 1:14:21 "And then you're not gonna know anything." And I, I think that is kind of the culture that we live in right now. Um, and it makes people defensive and it makes... It, it brings up those barriers, those walls. Yeah. 1:14:32 It, it hardens them in that belief system- It, it-... that they are, that they have. 100%. They shut you out and they don't listen. 1:14:37 So I think there's a little bit of maturity that comes along with this, like where you are in your process, as well as routine and, and, and what's been, what wall has been built. 1:14:44 And I've heard this said a few different times, but if you show me... Like, I have some pretty hard convictions on some things, right? 1:14:50 And in, in my life, both, both nutrition, fitness-wise, and they're all very much rooted in knowledge, experience, my, my heart, my gut, you know, and my head, you know. 1:15:00 And kinda like I always use those things as, as, uh, um, as, uh, as kind of, uh, platforms that I go to to kind of check things out. Like, why do I feel this way? How am I feeling this way about it? 1:15:11 Or- You're cross-referencing. [laughs] I'm cross-referencing, for sure. I'm, I'm checking in. I think the longer you go in life, kind of the ha- the, the more f- uh, fortified some of those walls get. 1:15:20 The more convicted you become. Yeah. At the same time, I've always been in the position where, like, if you show me a better way, right? 1:15:26 And you can, you can show me, you can show me the rationale, you can talk to me about it and you give me an opportunity, you show me how to, to do this thing, I will give it a shot. 1:15:33 And if it's better than what I have, I will scrap- Yeah... whatever that other thing is, and I... whatever that, that, that part of that wall is or that entire wall is, and I will do that thing if you can show it to me. 1:15:45 So I think if clients took approach, and, and a lot of m- a lot of coaches understood that's kind of what it takes in some of these, some of these cases, they would have a lot more success. 1:15:55 There still could be some frustration in that process, right? And that has to obviously be managed on both ends. 1:16:00 But again, these walls that get built up or belief systems that get established, they're there for a reason, and you, you did a really good job articulating that. I think it's like, let me understand why. 1:16:09 Like, and it's not an attack, right? 1:16:11 It's literally like, "Let me just check in and let me get the details from b- from behind why you're feeling that way or why you think that way or why this is, this is, this is there." 1:16:22 And a lot of times what that comes up to is, is, "This is what I did in the past," right? Or, "This is what worked for me before, and it's not working for me now." Okay. "So it's not working for you now. 1:16:32 Let's find [laughs]... Let's find some middle ground on this." Or, um, "You've been doing this for a while and we're not quite getting the result. Should... Maybe it's time to try something a little different. 1:16:41 Let me make a suggestion here." Right? It's not, "Let me tell you, you were wrong about that path you went down," because every one of those paths leads you to a greater level of- Of understanding of what works-... 1:16:49 enlightenment... and what doesn't work. Yeah. And I think people have to go through that. So I think when you're dealing with like a younger client, sometimes, um, uh, some- sometimes it's a, it, it... 1:16:58 What I, what I mean by that is like a younger in, like, chronological age. Yeah. It can be a little bit easier than, than working with somebody that's a little bit older. It's a beginner's mind. Yeah. 100%. 1:17:07 They're a little bit more fresh, a little bit more malleable maybe. Yeah. 1:17:10 Versus you get to that person that's been stuck, that has done these things, um, probably had more failures than they've had successes in a lot of way, particularly on the dietary side of things and that, and, and nutrition side of things, and that's led to some health issues or other things, other thing else. 1:17:24 There's a lot of things that can be, you know, rooted in that foundation in fear and disappointment and, and whatever else. 1:17:30 And, um, when I run into that with folks, oftentimes I'll ask them, when I can sense that from them, I'll just say, "Hey, what, what are you so afraid of here? Like, what is the, what... I, I sense there's some fear. 1:17:41 What are you afraid of about doing this thing?" And- Making this change, you mean... making this change, and a lot of times it's, it, it's the fear of failure, right? 1:17:49 "And I've done this for so long" or, "I've tried this so many times, and things, all these different things haven't worked." That, that can be a big one to overcome. And, and, uh, again, 1:18:00 uh, uh, we've used this like, we, we started this with like what really annoys us or frustrates us. 1:18:04 It frustrates me when people have had that much, um, kind of turmoil, if you will, or n- not been successful for so long to where they're being very rigid and they're very fearful. 1:18:16 Um, I'm frustrated that they had to ever get there. 1:18:19 And w- now I'm in this position where I, where I know, like, if we [laughs] make a couple of these adjustments right here, again, based on knowledge, ex- experience, we make a few adjustments, I think we're gonna get a win, and I get this person that's constantly pushing, pushing back and pushing back- Yeah... 1:18:35 and pushing back and- "I don't know about that one." Yeah. "I gotta think about it." Yeah. Yeah. We just gotta, we, we gotta keep working through it. That, it's, it can be very frustrating. 1:18:42 So from a coach's perspective, for those that are listening out there, like, I get that. Like, I, I totally understand that. And ultimately it's up to them to come to the table. 1:18:50 Um, you can, you can try to keep carving through that path and doing those things, but, or doing the things you need to do in order to maybe break that down a little bit, um, before they, you know- Yeah... 1:19:00 throw up their hands and jump off the wagon or whatever- Yeah... the rails, whatever we wanna refer to. Yeah. And I think some- sometimes there is a... And it can be challenging to let people fail. 1:19:10 Uh, i- if, you know, I don't want you to fail, but if I've tried to present a, a change or, or a different path here, and you just, you won't trust me enough to, to follow that path, okay. Yeah. 1:19:24 Let's just keep doing it how you're doing it. And, and at some point in time, hopefully, you'll realize, "Okay, this isn't working." Yeah. Coach- coaches can't be afraid to do that. 1:19:36 I, I just go back to my, again, my example with my mom and the coming home late and whatever else, and I, I, I credit my parents a, a ton for this, and that was they [laughs] they let us make our own decisions. 1:19:46 They instilled a lot of things in us very young. As we got older, we got a little bit more room, a little longer leash to do some things. And man, I failed a lot. 1:19:53 And, you know, I'm j- I'm certain my parents saw it coming. And again, I think, you know, when I look back to those times, I learned through that process, right? And ultimately, I... 1:20:04 Whether they told me to or didn't tell me to do something differently, I ultimately ended up doing the thing that I needed to do to write, to self-correct. Yeah. And, and I'm sure that was very tough for them. 1:20:15 As a parent myself, I see that happening. Sometimes it's a different relationship as a parent. I am not your parent, right? As a, as a, as a coach. Mm-hmm. Right? It is not my job. "Well, you're fucking grounded," right? 1:20:27 [laughs] Yeah. Or, "Give me the car keys." You know? Yeah. There's that, that consequence is, is not the same. I don- I can't really have that. Yeah, we're two adults here. Yeah. 1:20:34 We're two adults here, and this is not what this relationship is. But my point being is, like, sometimes you just have to allow them to go through that and- Yeah... and fail. 1:20:43 Do, do you understand now why that doesn't work? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It- So let's try something different. 1:20:47 So for, like, for spouses that are listening to this and their, their significant other is, you see them struggling. Yeah. And you, you know, you've even tried to be their coach at a time. 1:20:55 I think every, every relationship's been like that where somebody's, like, trying to guide somebody through, and trying to be delicate about it 'cause they're trying to manage feelings and emotions and- Yeah... 1:21:03 and all that, and all that other stuff. And they just don't seem to get it, but they hear it from somebody else. You know? Or they go through the- Yeah. 1:21:09 [laughs] And then finally they come to you and they're like, "You know what? I'm gonna try this now 'cause I think this is better." And you're like- That thing I've been suggesting for [laughs] years. Yeah. 1:21:15 So you have two choices, right? Yeah. [laughs] You can either say what you just said out loud. Yeah. "Oh, you mean the thing I told you to do two years ago?" Yeah. "You're probably, like, I was right about that?" Yeah. 1:21:24 Or, uh, or, "It's amazing. You know, y- I just ch- did these things." It happens in ear- all the time with clients. Like, they go, "You know, I just did this thing and I feel so much better. 1:21:32 And, you know, I'm, I, I've lost a little, lo- lost a little weight." And, like, and you're just like... That's awesome. Oh, yeah. [laughs] That's exactly... [laughs] I'm so proud of you, right? 1:21:41 But on the inside- [laughs]... you're just going, you just wanna say out loud like, "No shit." [laughs] Yeah. "I literally told you that no less than 100 times." Yeah. "I'm glad for whatever reason it finally sunk in." 1:21:52 So- Yeah, you ar- Yeah... you arrived at that conclusion, you know, entirely on your own and, uh- Yeah... congratulations on your novel idea. [laughs] Yeah. And, and all your success. Yeah. [laughs] Uh, but yeah. 1:22:02 So again, having, having trust in the coach, right? And, and, and but more specifically what you were mentioning there is, is not being locked into a belief system that's holding you back, right? 1:22:13 And, uh, both as a coach and as a client. 'Cause I think there's a lot of coaches out there that operate the same way. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're like, "No, this is the way." This is the, this is the procedure. Yeah. 1:22:21 That's, this- This is how I've been doing it for 20 years. So going back to the walls piece and, and building up those walls, um, I think w- you, you gotta be careful about those. 1:22:30 You need to reexamine that structure on occasion and, and just see kind of what else, is there another way here, and could that way be better? 1:22:37 So being locked into those belief systems, just understand, like, through nutrition, nutrition coaching, you know, again, dietary success, even fitness success, there is a way, right? There's not the way. Mm-hmm. 1:22:49 And because what we're dealing with is individuals here. Um, so whether it's the tracking and the not being honest and whatever, we have to find ways to, to kinda carve through that. 1:22:58 So it's, a- as a client, it's your responsibility to open up a little bit and, uh, be a l- be, maybe be a little bit more honest, a little bit more vulnerable, if you wanna use that word. 1:23:07 Um, you know, do the work that you're expected to do to get the result that you expect. That you're expecting. Yeah, that you're expecting. 1:23:14 And, and having trust and, and maybe putting some of those belief systems that you've had for so long that maybe, just maybe they're contributing to the reason you're not getting the results that you want. 1:23:24 Maybe put them on the shelf, at least for a little while, and trust the person that's sitting across from you that wants to help you. 1:23:31 Um, maybe they're financially motivated, maybe they're intrinsically motivated, motivated, maybe it's a little bit of both. 1:23:35 But at the end of the day, like, you want this relationship to work, um, or you want the results you want. So this, this, and, and, and you, you should have those, right? It doesn't mean you deserve them. 1:23:45 You should be able to get to those, but you have to, y- 1:23:49 y- you have to put a few things on the, on the side and, and, and be a little bit more introspective on these other 165 hours of the week that are or are not being reported correctly, you know, or accurately or honestly. 1:24:00 And, um, again, that's a two, it's a two-way street. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that, that just about covers it. I think we, we... That was... We went deep in there. Yeah, I know. 1:24:11 Um, it kind of went a little deeper than I thought, uh- [laughs]... thought, thought we might go. I mean, there's a lot of other things I could say- Yeah... 1:24:15 that probably wouldn't be appropriate in terms of things that frustrate me. [laughs] Yeah. 1:24:18 But at the same time, again, this wasn't, this wasn't about, like, calling people out and making them feel bad about what it is that they're doing or not doing or whatever. 1:24:24 These are the, just, these are things that literally- Yeah... those, those five things are the things that come up- Yeah... pretty regularly with everybody. It's very normal. Yeah. Right? 1:24:31 I think it's very, it's very normal. Yeah. Um- I'm not feeling annoyed. No. [laughs] I'm not either. 1:24:36 [laughs] But the longer this goes where we're not, where we're not handling these things and getting these things put to bed- Mm-hmm... 1:24:41 um, again, the, then other weird behaviors and other deeper level frustrations, the ones that are kind of in my head start to pop up. Yeah. So, um, these are just some, s- some things to avoid. 1:24:50 And I'll just say this, just giving Steven a plug. I mean, the, y- s- you've been doing this long enough, right? 1:24:56 And you've been through your own experiences and have studied this stuff, researched it, put it into practice long enough to where there's probably not much you haven't come across yet. Um, there's always- Yeah... 1:25:07 there's this concept of individuality here. But, you know, oftentimes, uh, you know, we mentioned this, some people need coaching and some people just need a little bit of guidance. 1:25:15 Again, going back to, like, the personal trainer/nutrition coach, or the person that just does one versus the other. 1:25:21 Um, I would encourage people, if you're just looking for a, "I just think I just need a conversation, uh, 'cause I recognize myself in a few of the things that you guys just brought up, and I don't know if I'm ready for coaching yet," right? 1:25:33 "But I would like to have a c- uh, uh, you know, just a conversation with somebody that can maybe help me understand how to get through this one thing." 1:25:40 You think it's one thing, it's likely more things, but sometimes that one thing opens up the world to you with regard to those other things that you could be addressing, which can make all the difference in the world. 1:25:52 Um, so I'd encourage people to reach out. So, and it's easy to do that. Steven's available for these con- conversations. This is what he freaking does all day, every day with people. We have tremendous client success. 1:26:04 I trust him so much. He works with my clients on the nutrition side, not so I don't have to, but because I know he enjoys it way more than I do right now. 1:26:14 [laughs] And, um, and he does have a little bit of a different way about him. So there's a... 1:26:18 And, and what I mean by that is, um, I think for me, again, going back to being the older guy, I think there's a connection that, that Steven has with, certainly with the clients that I, that I train, that he works with, that, that I also have, but he has it in a different way, and we're able to communicate and, and, and, uh, come together on this stuff. 1:26:35 So if you're, if you're looking to have just, "You know what? I just need to have a conversation about it," it's easy. You can easily reach out to us. Go to rdftrainonline.com. Uh, there's a contact page there. 1:26:45 You can hit us there. You can even go to the nutrition page and schedule an appointment. Um, and, uh, we will, we will get right back to you, and we'll put you guys in touch. 1:26:53 And, uh, let's, again, we can't help you if you don't call, and, uh, so do that. So again, that's rdftrainonline.com. [rock music] Thank you for tuning into this episode of Iron Sights. 1:27:05 If you enjoyed our conversation, you can support our mission by hitting the subscribe button, leaving a review, and sharing the podcast with a friend. I'll see you on the next episode.
