Transcript 0:00 And we're back here on the Iron Sights podcast in the studio with my favorite health and fitness crew, Ryan and Cece from right here at Red.Fitness. In this episode, we're talking flexibility and mobility. 0:12 We're gonna dig deep in a couple of things, but some stuff's been popping up lately. You're gonna hear about this stuff where people will be selling you, like, a fascial training program. 0:20 We're gonna talk a little bit about that. We're also gonna talk a little physiology, a little anatomy, and where mobility and flexibility fit in for folks. Like, how do you program it? 0:28 Like, what would be important for you? Where should you put it in your program? Specifically, how do you program that throughout the week based on the workouts they're gonna- you're gonna do or not do? 0:37 So we break it down, we talk about it, we try to demystify it a little bit. 0:41 But Ryan goes a little bit deep in sections to try to educate you a little bit, maybe get you thinking a little bit different about what's going on when you're actually doing stuff with regard to flexibility and mobility. 0:51 So, sit back, enjoy this episode here with, uh, my favorite crew again here at Red.Fitness on the Iron Sights podcast. [air whooshing] Here's another Red.Fitness program I wanna tell you about. 1:03 If you are a novice to intermediate exerciser or somebody that's been off for a while and you're jumping back in, it's called Red.Fitness Strong. It's our most popular muscle building and strength building program. 1:15 It's four months long. So you're gonna get access to four months of training. There's a little bit of an on-ramp that happens at the beginning of that, and then we phase this out over the next three months. 1:24 We've taken care of everything you're gonna need in there. So all the exercises, including demonstration videos, reps, sets, tempos, volume, intensity. We thought about all that. All you gotta do is get into the program. 1:35 Again, it's 16 weeks of workouts. They're about 60 minutes each. They're super easy to follow. You're gonna get exposure to a lot of different stuff, maybe some you've done, maybe stuff you haven't done. 1:45 It's our most popular program 'cause it's gotten our clients the best kind of results. So again, if you're looking to build muscle and strength, jump into RDF Strong. 1:54 You can go to rdfstrong.com and get 25% off that program right now by using code STRONG25. So one more time, that's rdfstrong.com. Use STRONG25 to get 25% off. 2:07 [rock music] Welcome to Iron Sights. 2:14 This podcast candidly seeks to create opportunities and deliver impact by sharing the experiences and wisdom of successful entrepreneurs and thought leaders who unapologetically aim to win in health, fitness, business and life. 2:28 I'm your host, Scott Howell. Welcome to old school meets new school, tradition meets innovation, and imperfection meets excellence. Thanks for listening, and enjoy the show. And we're back. 2:41 Let's talk, uh, mobility and flexibility. Uh, we- this is a co- conversation we've had several times. 2:47 Uh, we'll, we'll bring some direction to it specific to who's, you know, what's appropriate for who, where does it go in, and kinda how do you do it. Because, 2:58 uh, I haven't met a person ever, right, that was totally satisfied with their flexibility or their mobility. 3:04 My hand would be the first up in the room if you'd asked me, um, you know, "Who's the most dissatisfied with their fle- f- uh, flexibility and mobility?" And it would've been me. I would've been... 3:14 My hand would've shot straight to the ceiling right away. Kinda always been that way for me. Like, I've always had challenges. I can remember back to, I think I was five, playing soccer. 3:24 It was the first soccer team I was on. And, you know, your kids are running around with jeans and cleats and, you know, your little soccer, AYSO soccer jersey. 3:32 And you go out for practice or whatever and coach is taking you through a little warmup and it's like herding cats, you know? 3:37 But we did, like, cherry pickers or, like, toe touches, and I remember watching the other kids do these, and I couldn't get down there, man. [laughs] Like, I was, like, trying to touch the ground. 3:46 Just wasn't very good at it. 3:47 Uh, n- and it, it, it, it didn't resonate with me that then that it would be a problem for me later in life, but man, that, that, that followed me and is, like, you know, my old man was kinda the same way, so I just kind of accepted, like, "Oh, we're just tight." 3:59 You know? "We're just- Yeah... we're just inflexible. It's just who we are." 'Cause that's what he would say, "I'm just really inflexible." By the way, has, the dude had a black belt in karate, right? 4:07 In Shotokan karate, so he'd done a lot of stuff, right? He was a gymnast, right? He lifted a lot of weights. Um, I don't know what he was like as a young man, but he, he always claimed to be, like, very stiff, right? 4:19 And so I just accepted that that's just in my DNA, that's just who we are. 4:23 Uh, but it, it definitely showed up for me later, like, in things that I wanted to do or I, things I watched other people do, particularly athletes. I'm like, "How come I can't do that? 4:31 There's gotta be an answer to this," right? Like, "What, what do I do?" 4:35 And then you start to s- as I got into the industry and I started to study more, like, oh, we have to stretch, we have to do these, we have to foam roll. We have to do soft tissue manipulation. 4:44 We have to do all of these things. And I did a lot of that stuff, right? And I did it consistently for a long time. No change. No, no- no change. N- nothing... 4:53 And when I say that, like, n- the ch- any change that I got, right, never put me at the place that I actually wanted to be. And to me, that was very frustrating. 5:03 And I think there's probably a lot of people out there listening to this that feel exactly the same way, that either k- kind of have had that mindset like I had from a, from a long time ago, from whatever the, whatever their experience was, right? 5:14 To being, feeling restricted, uh, in doing the activity or whatever it is that they're doing, playing a sport or whatever. 5:21 And then, uh, also then moving on to, like, "Oh, let me try and fix this," and not feeling like they got really anywhere with it. So anyway, that then leads to, like, how much time should I be spending on this? 5:32 What should I be doing? Where should I be spending it? 5:35 And I think having a little bit of an understanding of, like, how does all this work is important, but I, we should probably start with, like, defining what is flexibility w- flexibility versus what is mobility. 5:45 Uh, and they're pretty easy to, to define in layman's terms. 5:49 Yeah, I mean, I, I think a lot of people still get confused by this, but basically a, a simple way to think about it is flexibility is the range that you maybe don't have control in, right? 5:58 That you can't own, that, you know, is very passive. Um, that's the kind of thing where if you bend over and touch your toes, you can just reach and touch them. 6:05 There's no, there's no ability to f- you know, you're not forcing yourself necessarily, for some individuals. Mobility is very active, so it's how, you know, how high could you lift your leg out in front of you? 6:16 So in, in a, a more technical term, we call that generally a motor control gap. So a lot of your ability to what is the range of motion to... 6:24 You can get to passively versus what is the range of motion that you can pull yourself into, get into actively. Um, uh, of interesting, someone gave this take the other day, and they were an... 6:33 It might've been Peter Attia. Um, I think, uh, I think it was him, and he was talking about, um, a little bit about flexibility versus mobility, and w- Peter Attia was talking about this? I think he was. I think it was. 6:42 It might have been him. Well, he's certainly an expert on this- Uh, he's an expert [laughs]... so I can't wait to hear his take. I'm not saying he's an expert. I'd go to him. 6:48 But it was an interesting take because a lot of people think of flexibility and mobility, um, the more I've learned about it, um, and we'll dive into this, um, I think some of the impact of mobility training and flexibility training is he was the idea of people who say, like, "I cannot, um, touch my toes," or, "I have inability to, um, you know, I... 7:09 My hamstrings are really, really, really tight. I just don't have that length." 7:12 And he talked about how, um, again, I've never tested this, but if he were to knock you out on your anesthesia, how your ability, you can passively lift your leg to a point- Mm-hmm... 7:22 that you have no way of getting to that range actively if you were awake, right? You can almost bend it and pull it up by your head. 7:28 Well, even if you tried to put it there passively for me while I was awake- Passively while you're awake... I wouldn't be able to get there. 7:33 And so what we'll talk about when we get into this is a lot of flexibility or inflexibility and what builds into mobility versus immobility is actually a lot of your nervous system, and it's a lot playing with receptors and your body's ability to, um, if [laughs] I d- I guess use the term feel safe in certain positions or feel unsafe. 7:53 Yep. Um, and there is people who have a very natural tendency to where they are just, let's just say their body, I guess, feels very safe and very crazy ranges of motion because- Gumby... right, Gumby. Hypermobile. 8:04 Hyper- hypermobile or hyperflexible or, or where they can get to these ranges that are just crazy. And there are people who are very, very stiff, maybe like you and your dad, where they have a natural restriction. 8:15 Um, and we'll, we'll talk about more, but a lot of this isn't that your, hey, your muscle length was this, and now I literally pulled out a rubber band or a piece of putty, and now your, you know, your muscle is this length. 8:26 It's really impacting more your nervous system and the local receptors- Mm-hmm... in specific muscles and specific, around specific joints and things like that. Mm-hmm. 8:34 So that's the thing that'll actually, like, have the impact long-term. So I'm gonna tell you a story in the, in, on, on top of what you were just sharing. 8:39 So I remember one of the first surgeries that I observed, it was an ACL surgery, and when the ortho was done, he turned to us, the athletic trainers at the time, and he said, "So, you know, when you're working on her range of motion," he's like, "Look at the range of motion that she has," and she's passed out, right? 8:56 And he's, like, cranking on her knee. Full flexion, full extension. Yeah, ankle to ass cheek. [clears throat] Exactly. He's like, "So-" So this is ACL, right? Uh-huh. Yeah. 9:03 And so he's like, "So, um, if she comes back and she tells you that she doesn't have the range of motion, you know that she has the range of motion." Mm-hmm. 9:10 "So there's going to be an inhibition based on the neurological system, but then also the swelling." Yeah. So he's like, "Don't think that she doesn't have the range of motion. She will have the range of motion. 9:20 You're going to just have to work on, on getting it." So- Finding it. 9:24 Which for those who don't know, uh, post-ACL, a lot of the [clears throat] rehab, through the rehab process is gaining full knee bending flexion and full extension. Mm-hmm. 9:32 A lot of people, um, come away with that, and, and they struggle to get both of those. Mm-hmm. So that's, that's in- They really struggle with getting the extension. Yeah. Right? Which, so the full extension. 9:39 Because a lot of times people will develop that flexion contracture- Mm-hmm... where their knee is slightly bent- Yeah... and they can't seem to get full extension. Yes, exactly. 9:45 Well, a lot of that has to do with how those things were handled post-surgically- Yeah... for a long, long time. In the rehab, yeah. Yeah, I mean, for a long time, they were immobilized. 9:52 They would immobilize these folks, right? Yeah. And what do you think- Oh, yeah, they would cast them. Yeah. What do you think would happen then? Yeah, of course- Back in the days... 9:57 of course that stuff's gonna get tight, right? And it's gonna not be mobile, and it's not gonna be flexible. But nowadays, right, as soon as you're out, man, you are up and moving, right? 10:06 They got you on some type of machine, maybe even for assistance, but you are up and moving, and the first thing they want you to do is get moving on that thing as soon as you can, particularly when that cocktail is still live in your system from being out and in anesthesia. 10:20 Uh, like the, the, the, the cocktail that they give you for, for swelling and pain killing and things like that so that you can handle some of it, like, right away, knowing that that will wear off after a couple days, and then you're gonna probably start to feel it. 10:32 [laughs] It's not gonna feel too great, but you already, you, you've already gotten the healing process going, and the, the, you're trying to find that range of motion again very soon. So things have evolved. 10:41 Things have changed. But the point being is that, that, that range of motion exists, right? Unless you've got some type of an orthopedic restriction, right, like a bony restriction- Mm-hmm... 10:51 or maybe a soft tissue restriction which could exist, right? That prevents you from getting into those positions. 10:57 And but more specifically to your point, this is the nervous system telling your body, "Nope, we ain't going there." Yeah. So I think the question is, is like, well, how do we override that? 11:06 Like, what are the things involved with this so that my body will maybe relax and feel safer there? And what are the components of that, uh, in, in terms of making it feel that way and getting it there? 11:17 And to my own story, like, I spent a lot of time working on that. 11:22 D- depth of knowledge with regard to how the nervous system works, and I would say again, to, to just kind of come over the top of that, it was just that I was getting very little for the amount of work that I was putting in. 11:35 It was very frustrating for me. So maybe what we can help people do is minimize some of that frustration and get a little bit more return on their investment. For sure. 11:43 I, you know, uh, mobility training I think is honestly, it's either very hated or it's just thinking it's the cause to all your problems. 11:50 I really, really think that's kind of, there's a- Two major camps with that, that a lot of people think it's overrated, that you don't need to spend time doing it, that you can just go lift weights and you'll be fine. 12:00 Then there's the other side of people who, you know, they, you need to do mobility training every day, and they don't even lift weights, and they spend, you know, doing, you know, FRC, these little tiny positions and fighting and putting all their effort and energy into, in gaining, you know, two more degrees of hip internal rotation, right? 12:16 Like most things, I think the pendulum, it should be somewhere in between. Yeah. And it's where you as the individual need to learn, um, how to apply this directly. 12:26 Um, it, there's a lot of nuance, and there's a lot of understanding of why a specific individual and why a specific, um, a specific timing and how much time you should spend on that. 12:36 And so hopefully we can get you to a point today where you can kind of learn if you're wasting your time versus, hey, this is actually beneficial for you. Um, and I've gone down that rabbit hole too. 12:45 I teach a mobility class. I'm a mobility coach. I do a lot of mobility training myself. I've done the rabbit hole where I have three days a week where all I do is specific mobility training that... 12:54 And, and I've stopped lifting a lot of weights, and like I said, and like you said too, I was making improvements, and I would feel really good after, but really long-term, I wasn't making as many improvements as I felt I should be. 13:06 Um, and I've gone down the other rabbit hole where I was before, even prior to that, where I did basically zero warmup, and I was lifting, and I felt like a brick walking around and couldn't move. 13:14 Um- Yep, been on both sides too, yeah. Um, you know, so I, I think the, really the first to understand, um, 13:21 one place to really think about is, is your lack of mobility or flexibility limiting something that you're trying to achieve? 13:27 Is it limiting a specific exercise that you have, um, some weight into that you think is, is valuable or a sport or skill that you're, um, that you're wanting to, um, perform that that immobility or inflexibility is, is inhibiting f- you from achieving? 13:42 Um, I think that is one way to think about it. 13:43 Is there a point in your life, in your day-to-day that's coming up that you feel you lack a position, like every time you reach up overhead to get something out of the cupboard, you feel like you literally can't get your arm all the way up overhead? 13:54 That's a very, um, a common, but, you know, it feels extreme, but common example of is it inhibiting you in your daily life? Um, do you just have a constant kind of the feeling of tension and pain? 14:04 Do you feel like you are just, "Hey, this part of my hip always hurts," um, things like this. And you really need to define, like, do I actually need to spend time in this specific area improving this? 14:16 And, and then from there you can kind of put yourself into two different categories, um, we talked about earlier, the person who's maybe very naturally tight and the person who's very maybe naturally bendy. 14:26 I would argue they both have a time and place to do mobility training. Um, but it's gonna look different, and the amount of time they need to spend and when you apply it is gonna be very different as well. 14:38 Um, so if we talk about specifically, like if we talk about the person who is very, very re- uh, tight and they don't have a lot of r- um, range of motion, um, i- in general, and they just feel stiff. 14:49 Um, for that individual to k- to kind of talk about first, I think, you know, with nervous system, a lot of what we're stimulating is local receptors, um, are, you know, within the fascia, within the muscles, when within the local, um, you know, nerve outlets in the area. 15:04 Our body can feel pressure, can feel contraction, can feel different types of sensations to have a pretty immediate change. 15:10 For that tight individual, they may need to down-regulate some things in order to upre- regulate into specific positions that they desire, right? 15:19 So for example, your hamstrings are so upregulated and tight that you can't get into an RDL position. 15:24 Even if you, you know, you really try to fight in the good position everything you can, it can't down-regulate into that position. 15:31 So that individual might need to spend some time doing some stretching that feels very passive and learning to breathe and relax and turn off those systems. 15:41 And, and that individual too, a lot of what happens with that person who feels tight is they tend to overstretch sometimes too. Mm-hmm. And that can actually tend to almost piss off your nervous system a little bit. 15:52 That can almost make you get tighter in some ways. I think that's actually one of the biggest mistakes people make. "I'm tight. Let me pull on this," right? "And tug on this and try to get it to quote unquote stretch." 16:03 Yes. Right? So we could time out for just a second- Yeah... and kind of talk about the components here. So you talk about the nervous system. Mm-hmm. Talk about the nervous and the muscular system. Yeah. Right? 16:13 And how those things engage one another a- and interact. So the brain 16:20 gets information, sends information back from those, uh, like those neural receptors that you, you, you mentioned, and there's a few things going on there without going too deep into the rabbit hole. 16:30 We have things that sense change in length, and we have something that, that senses change in tension, right? And so you have the muscle spindles. They will sense a change in tension, right? Yeah. 16:41 And then they, they will send a signal, right, to the Golgi tendon organ, which will... that's, that senses change in tension, right? So we have this communication happening there, right? 16:51 So as your muscles are lengthening, your, your body will go, "Oh, we're lengthening," right? "Okay." To a certain extent, and if... 16:59 There's, there's kind of like an emergency response system there that will say, "Hey, if we go too much further, this isn't gonna be good. Something's g- something bad could happen here." 17:08 And basically, it's a reflex, right? And then it tells, then again, this Golgi tendon organ says, "Hey, we're gonna contract this thing, so we're gonna, we're gonna tense up," right? 17:18 Now, there's ways to override this, which is what you're gonna talk about, I think, a little bit with, with where regard, with regard to where we can get both of those things to talk to one another better. 17:26 So when that tension starts to happen, or excuse me, the length starts to happen, the tension or that stretch reflex, right, to tense up isn't as severe, right? Yeah. 17:37 And that's essentially what we're trying to train, right? 17:39 So that with this mobility training or c- or flexibility training, so that we can get this better length-tension relationship to happen in the tissue that likely has the range to move there. 17:51 The joint, sorry, has the range to move. Again, in, in the ACL example where my ass, or my ankle can touch my ass when I'm laying on the- On the, on the table, right? 18:01 But when I wake up and the nervous system turns back on 'cause it's been shut down by the anesthesia and all the, all the drugs that are pumping through my system. 18:08 When it turns back on, it goes to, "Holy shit, what is, what just happened to me down there?" Right? And so it starts to send these signals as, like, a protective mechanism. 18:17 So effectively what you're trying to do is you're trying to override or almost play a trick on that protective mechanism in order to open up that tissue or allow that tissue to do the things that it needs to do. 18:28 Now, I'll add this. [clears throat] This is where things get really freaking weird in the fitness industry. Well, there's gotta be a product or a tool that can make that happen, right? Right? 18:38 Like, I, I, I should be able to... So foam rollers, right? Lacrosse balls, uh, massage guns, all this stuff that people are looking for to fix that problem, it's not a problem, right? 18:52 There's, there's a challenge there, right, that we have to overcome, but those, those aren't the answers. So if you understand kind of the componentry there, right, of, of what's going on, I think 19:03 what, what, what, what people can wrap their heads around is, like, oh, like, if I sat there... Again, going back to, we've used this word a lot, the intention of what I'm trying to do. 19:11 Like, really what I'm trying to do is get it to relax, and I think what you were, were saying before I jumped in there was this, if we can get in some real passive type of flexibility work where I can just get the body to, what you said, down regulate, so that signal isn't being shot down the system so hard, we can just get it to go, "Maybe we don't need to be as, as wound tight here as we are." 19:35 We can just get it to relax. It puts us in a much better position in order to change this to a certain extent and then train through it to continue to see progression or added change over time. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. 19:48 A- and, and y- like you said, these, these mechanisms are put in place really to protect us. You know, people think we're really tight and want more mobility. It's also for performance. It's, it's for performance. 19:57 And, and we'll talk about, we'll go to the other person who is hyper-flexible and some of their, I don't wanna say downsides, but some of the things of why they would need to work on this, that it's kind of an, a different strategy. 20:08 Some of the movements may even sometimes look similar, but the strategy behind it for that individual is different, um, when they're doing mobility training. Um, and that's where it can inhibit some performance. 20:18 And this length tension relationship, you need, um, you know, for example, some of that stretch reflex, that tension in the muscle, to be able to create a lot of force, to have a lot of high mechanical tension, have a lot of translation from muscles to tendons to joints to bones- Bones... 20:34 to, to be able to produce force and be athletic and move. Jump, run, stop, start, all the things that people wanna do outside the gym. Exactly. And so you, you do need tension. 20:44 You don't wanna be necessarily pure Gumby to be able to have high level performance or, and honestly even high level of function, even though it can feel like you're maybe not functioning at a, at a, um, at a capacity that you want to, right? 20:56 So that is important that you down regulate these things. 20:58 And that's why all these different tools and way to go about this, um, really the main goal that I try to communicate with people is if whatever tool feels, um, uh, successful or that you really have attachment to that you feel you can get a good e- effect with, the most important thing is that you're having some sort of mechanical or sensory change to the area, and you are able to, in this case, when you're trying to down regulate, relax. 21:23 So the people who are foam rolling, and they're just grinding on something and pissing it off, and they're can't even breathe, and they're just overly tense, you're not gonna create a lot of change. 21:34 In some ways, you're almost sending more signals to that, to your body that, "Hey, we need to lock up in even more," right? "This is, I don't like this. This is painful." 21:42 It's the same thing for the individual who just cranks and pulls and uses additional tools to yank on something like their hamstrings, where they really, really pull onto it, yank onto it. 21:51 I had a client who would do this all the time. Every time we were resting, he would just be stretching his hamstrings, just pulling on them all the time, even though he had decent range of motion. 21:59 But that, again, that ability that you're just over-yanking on it is sending these signals to your nervous system that it do- it's not comfortable. Inhibitory. It's not relaxed. Yeah. 22:06 It's, it's gonna send an inhibitory in by actually upregulating that tissue and creating more tension. Yeah, m- so more length. Oh, that's not good. Send the tension signal. 22:16 Right now, we don't want any more length in this tissue. Exactly. 22:19 So for that initial phase for that individual, um, and we'll talk about, again, how you apply this, like, in your program based on the day versus days of the week, and it- that's very individual based on your current goals, how, what bad of a place you're in, um, how much work there is to be done, and where you're trying to get to, and what are the reasons you're trying to get to those places as well. 22:37 Again, sometimes the more mobility just to have more mobility isn't always the answer. 22:42 Um, [clears throat] but whether that is a passive stretching, whether that is a foam rolling, whether that is a massage gun, as long as you're getting to an effect that you can down regulate that system, that's what's really important initially f- in that phase four, again, the tight individual, uh, individual that is already very inhibited with their range of motion. 23:01 Then from there, what really mobility work long, is long term is, yes, it is building strength, and there's kind of two ways to think about mobility again. 23:09 The mobility that you apply in building strength, which really long term, that needs to be rooted in, um, uh, resistance training. It needs to be progressed. 23:18 It needs to be challenging, and you need to progressively s- um, stimulate that, um, those movements, and that's one way to think about it. That sounds counterintuitive. That sounds counterintuitive, right? 23:28 A- and so that is one. That is something that is very, very important. 23:31 And that is, I do think some people, though, only go down that rabbit hole, and the other side of this increasing mobility over time, which we'll talk about really applies to the other individual who's, let's say, loose or Gumby, is changing in sensory inputs. 23:45 So things like very specific muscle contractions Muscle contractions at length, muscle, muscle contraction of the antagonistic muscle. 23:54 All these different things, um, can have a big impact and a pretty immediate impact on your current mobility. Mm-hmm. And it's not again that you... 24:01 Your muscle is here, and we just stretched it out, and now it has this length, and we added this much tissue within, you know, two minutes of a session. 24:09 But really if you've heard of things like FRC and PNF, these muscle contractions at a length. So let's say let's give the, the hamstring, which we can argue about if people need to spend a lot of time on their hamstring. 24:19 Let's give the hamstring. You do something to relax it. You roll it. You stretch it, um, passively. Now it is t- relaxed. 24:26 Now what you can do in, say, that seated position where you're working your hamstring, you can, um, contract your hamstring in that lengthened position. You can drive into the floor. 24:34 You can dig your heel into the floor in an upright seated position with your legs out in front of you and create a contraction in that hamstring. 24:40 Contracting that hamstring, then when you relax, it'll have more length, and you'll have more sensory input or length that you can have strength in and own. 24:48 Um, you can also, so that's where you contract that specific muscle you're trying to gain range of motion. On the other side of things, you can contract the antagonistic muscle. 24:56 You can contract your quads and your hip flexors, trying to pull you into a straighter knee. Contracting the top of your thigh in that seated position. 25:02 That can create an inhibitory or a more of a trust in your body to create more length in your hamstring. In a session, if I wanna get that, now I have more of that sensory input in my increase in mobility. 25:14 But now, again, now you need to build on that. Mm. And that's where you need to do exercises like a barbell RDL- Mm... that actually creates more strength at length in that hamstring exercise. 25:24 That individual, I might need to do that to get into a good pel- um, hinge position because they're so tight and restricted. 25:30 I may need to do that specific mobility work, but you're really spending the five to 10 minutes to get into the specific exercise because we wanna improve their hip hinge for all the cascading effects of the reasons why. 25:41 So that's kind of an example for someone who's really tight of why I would wanna do that and improve that session. 25:46 Yeah, so if I just wind, if I play that back to you, essentially what we're trying to do is we are trying to get the area to relax. Mm. Right? 25:54 Which is counterintuitive to now I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna work it- Yes... right, in that RDL. So we're, we're talking about hamstrings here. So I'm trying to get those things to relax. 26:02 What I'm trying to do is just a lo- is te- is get the system to, to relax enough to where when I do go to put tension in it, I'm working tension through maybe through more of that muscle- Yeah... 26:15 right, than what I was before if it was tensed up. So for people that aren't watching, like, what, what you're seeing there is it's not like you have this much. Let's say you have eight inches of muscle, right? Yeah. 26:24 And then you wind up with 12 inches of muscle by, you know, the end of your, your initial mobility warmup, uh, sequence here that you're doing. It's the same, right? What we're allowed to do, it's the same. It's 12. 26:37 It was 12 the whole time. Mm-hmm. Right? You just were only accessing, like, eight of it because, uh, two of it on one end and two of it on the other is going, "Now F this. We're not going there, man. 26:48 Like, we don't like that." But what we did was we were able to get that to calm down, so it's like, "Okay, maybe I can be available for you right now." 26:54 And then when you go over to the RDL exercise, now you're using all of it. Yes. 26:59 Which by strengthening and turn, and, and training it to be available for you, you can increase mobility and strength through that, through the entirety of the muscle- Yes... 27:10 and, and at those, those two attachment points at the top and at the bottom of the hamstring in a better way. Yes. Correctly. Yeah, and correct. 27:16 And that's where I think long-term, even for the individual who is tight, the mindset still needs to be how do I build to these, um, further steps of normal strength training that I wanna build? 27:27 Yes, they may need more range of motion, but for that to be really ingrained, I need to progress to those range of motions, under load, progressively overload, build more strength. 27:35 Yes, I need to do things to allow that muscle to trust that new length, but now I need to build strength in that new length, and that can take time. Um, I, I think now we can kind of pivot to the other individual. 27:46 Yeah, but before you go there, one of the things- Yes... you talked about was creating load at length. Mm-hmm. Right? There's some weird shit going on on the internet right now- There is some weird shit... 27:54 with re- with regard to this. And, and I'm not saying it's bad. 27:57 I'm just saying it's weird that we are talking about or showing this stuff because the people that they're showing, like some very heavily ballistically loaded, 28:07 uh, loading that's going on, let's stick to the hamstring, at that lengthened position when you look at it, looks very unorthodox, and it is. Uh, it is. 28:17 It looks like it could be very damaging and very traumatic, and it could be. 28:21 Often the things that I see, or often the people that I see these things being applied to are advanced level athletes that have great mobility, great strength, great flexibility, and a very solid awareness of what they're doing. 28:34 Um, albeit the thing that they're doing looks wild, right? Yeah. When they're on there. 28:39 And that's all I'm gonna say about that, but I think it's, this is what's driving some of this mobility and flexibility conversation right now and why there's so much confusion in a good deal of it. 28:47 Yeah, man, I, when I think about those individuals, I think the things that, um, I have a lot of reservation that people... 28:54 And this will kind of apply when we talk to about the more flexible individual as well, but two things that are really important. First, the consideration is, one, uh, I see a lot of these extreme ranges of motion. 29:04 Are these ranges of motion actually coming from the specific joint and specific- Yeah... muscle that you're intending it to? Yes, the bar is getting really, really close to the floor. 29:12 But are you actually maintaining, one, the k- good pelvic control that you actually are lengthening your hamstrings to that extreme range of motion? Or are you just reaching your arms forward. 29:19 Or are you just reaching your arms forward and you're getting really, well- Or getting thoracic flexion to get there. Yeah, exactly. You're compensating through all these other joints. 29:24 So one, mobility training and this type of training where it's very specific, it, it comes f- Where it's very specific, it needs to come from very specific joints, specific intentions, specific alignments, how you're tensioning on both sides of the tissue. 29:38 There's lots of nuance of how you actually get benefit from mobility training, okay? That's one. Two, we've talked a lot about this, but tissue quality and a lot of connective tissue quality. 29:48 So even though, and this is where I think long-term, even for that tight individual, but this really also, again, applies to that really hyper-flexible individual, is tissue quality and strength, especially at new lengths- Yeah... 29:59 that your body is not used to, takes time. So like you said, these are people who have been doing this, who have been lifting for a long time. They have slowly increased this range of motion. 30:06 That's where sometimes just because you went from the eight to the 12 inches, sometimes you need to be careful that you don't over-push the 12 inches of- Mm-hmm... 30:14 um, range of motion that you have in that muscle length and really pushing that. 30:18 You need time for your body, especially if you're a y- a younger, new lifter, to build the capacity and the tissue quality of your connective tissue, the fascia, the tendons, the ligaments, all those things around that, to have the capacity to do that movement, um, e- effectively and to, with a great, and, um, a great enough a- amount of load, um, to do that safely. 30:36 So don't rush into it. 30:38 And then again, are you actually doing that in the correct way and the, through the correct joints and ranges of motion through the actual muscle, and not just moving the point R from, the, the bar from point A to point B in an extreme range of motion. 30:50 Okay. So that's a, a very specific example of why you would do that for the individual who's really tight. 30:56 Now, the person who is really, really flexible, think of like the yogi who probably does too much yoga 'cause they're really good at it, even though this individual might feel tight, but they have a really crazy range of motion. 31:06 They can put their hands flat on the floor, and they have no tension in their hamstrings. Why would they do mobility training? So this person, they probably d- Here's a, here's a good example. 31:15 Let me give you an example- Yep... 'cause I think this is one people can relate to, and it's the dancer, right? Yes. The ballerina- Mm... 31:20 or whatever, who can grab her leg, her ankle, and she can pull it up from the floor over her head with her arm, right? And it's practically behind her head, right? She can do that passively. Mm. It's crazy. Yeah. 31:32 You know, you're watching that happen, and you're just going, "Holy." Yeah, it's like the standing splits- Yeah... but only more intense, right? 31:37 Versus if she d- couldn't grab it with, if she didn't grab it with her hand to pull it up, how far could, how far up could she get it? Yeah. So the first one is flexibility. She's very flexible. 31:47 Passively, she can pull it into that range of motion. But where can she get it to from a mobilization perspective? 31:52 That is, can I move that without assistance through, under the power of my hip, the, the muscles of my hip- Yeah... to get that up there? That is the, the question around mobility, and you will learn a lot. 32:03 And this is why mobility is important. Mobility training is important for a person like this. Yeah, for sure. And, and even that person may be able to kick, but you had mentioned earlier, like ballistic exercises. 32:13 Mm-hmm. They, they may not need to necessarily squeeze their leg up, but they can get momentum and be ballistic and get their leg up. That is different too. The question would be how much control do you have- Exactly... 32:22 in that ballistic movement, right? Exactly. Now, you're using momentum to get it there, right? Yeah. That, I'm talking slow, controlled, get it up there or not. I just... I haven't seen a person be able to do that. Yeah. 32:33 A- a- and so why would this individual need to do this kind of training even before a workout? For them, it's not necessarily that we need to downregulate systems. 32:41 Their systems are very downregulated to be comfortable getting to extreme lengths, right? 32:45 But if I go back to that same exact hamstring exercise, if I put them at a set length, and for this individual, it may not even be their end range. 32:53 It may be more of like a mid to end range for this individual because we wanna build the blocks to that end range. But I can do that exact same exercise where I can track the hamstring at length. 33:03 Maybe I can track the quad at length. And what that's really doing is building proprioception and a lot of that, that's, that sensory input in the nervous system of where their limbs are in space. 33:14 This individual, sometimes they struggle to actually feel where their joints are, what joint they're moving from, what muscle they're moving from. 33:20 Um, and they, they struggle to actually have good awareness and proprioception of what's going on in that specific area. 33:26 So even, again, for this, this individual, they may be able to have a good range of motion going into a barbell RDL, but you may still do that exercise not with the goal of increasing range of motion, but increasing control and sensory input into that area. 33:40 Now, when you go to that barbell RDL, that might be th- this individual, you may actually need to stop them shy of their full- Hmm... 33:46 range of motion and make sure that they can own that range of motion and maintain good tension and good bracing and good force production. 33:53 This person, honestly for me, is actually more challenging sometimes to increase- Agreed... total performance, total strength, and mobility in the way of having strength and control in these ranges of motion. 34:04 So if you get this individual and you go out, and you try to, you see these exercises online where you go to these extreme ranges of motion, I know you're gonna compensate through other joints. 34:13 This is super, super common because you're gonna get to that range of motion somehow, whether- And nothing's left. Yeah. And nothing's left. And then, um, and I really doubt that you have that tissue quality. 34:23 So even I've seen a lot of people who, who are super hyper-flexible have to work on not going to their full depth in a squat when they're doing a barbell back squat, learning to have tension in the bottom of that squat and limiting that range of motion so they actually cannot continue to piss off things that are, are, at the end of the day, make sure you don't break in half, like your ligaments and like some fascia and like some even tendons, things that are like your body's last line of defense to make sure that you don't, you know, wreck your shit, right? 34:47 So those individuals, that person, mobility work has its place in more of a sensory input to build awareness of where your body is in space, where joints are, what munch- muscle lengths, how to turn on the other side of that system that we talked about earlier. 35:02 So- Kind of like an on switch. An on switch. Exactly, right. Yeah. 35:05 So I think the, the, the major takeaways there are wherever you're falling in, like whatever side of the line you're on, I have flexibility, I don't have mobility, or I have some- Yeah... mobility, but I'm not flexible. 35:14 It usually, if you have mobility, you're probably gonna have more flexibility than the person that has flexibility without mobi- Yes Right? So, um, that might be a little confusing for people listening- Yeah... 35:24 but just understand this. The goal is control. Mm-hmm. Right? The goal is what can I control on my own, not passively, right? So I like y- your, your statement there 'cause I would agree 100%. 35:35 I trained a lot of dancers, a lot of dancers, uh, that people like professional salsa, ballet- Mm-hmm... um, i- in, um, ballroom for that matter. So it was really interesting. 35:46 I just wound up with a bunch of these types of clients, and they all had the same issues, right? They all had the same issues. One was low back issues. Yep. 35:52 Because they had flexibility, they didn't have strength and mobility, particularly at the lumbar and pelvis, pelvic, pel- uh, pelvic area. The other area was the neck at the cervical spine. Yep. 36:02 Um, because they had, there was a lot of ballistic movement. They're snapping their heads and things like that around particularly the salsa dancers. [laughs] Yeah. Right? Or whatever. 36:11 They all had neck issues, uh, cervical spine issues because they had flexibility. They could turn that thing, if you grabbed it, you could almost turn it around like The Exorcist all the way around. 36:20 However, they did not have a lot of strength there or mobil- so they didn't have mobility, and that is to be able to control those ranges of motion, right? Yeah. 36:28 So they were reacting to whatever the ballistic movement was or the, the, they were trying to get into a position, right? Without being able to control the end ranges of that position. 36:38 Like, um, a- again, uh, I'm not a dancer. I wouldn't know what this is even called, but if you have to, if you have to turn your head very quickly to change directions, right? 36:48 To do some type of a spin or a turn or an explosive movement, you know, moving laterally or whatever the case is, like, and you do that, but you don't have the control in order to slow that movement down, right? 37:00 Once you reach that end range, this is where these things come up. And so what ends up happening is it creates a lot of instability, right? Around those joints, which then creates problems, right? Yeah. 37:09 They're being stressed out. So it all, it all ties in. 37:13 They are very tough to train because they are like Gumby, and they can do some crazy stuff with their bodies, but it's very challenging them for, for, or very challenging for them to then load. 37:23 A, an example would be your, uh, your, your RDL. They're like, okay, they can do that unloaded, but when I load them, all kinds of things happen, and they might not even... 37:33 They might be have plenty of strength in the hamstring and low back in order to, to handle that, but where they really lack strength is up top, right? 37:40 Like, to maintain that bar posit- or that, that thoracic position and hold onto that bar and things like that, and this is where the problems show up. The, uh, the same is true for the person that is super strong, right? 37:52 He can get down like Aster Grass in a squat, for example, but does not have good thoracic mobility. Mm. Right? 37:58 They have a lot of strength up there, but they don't have mobility to get that, get into that extension th- through thoracic spine in order to keep that upright, which then ends up sending all that tension right back down into the low back, which is probably why they're so damn strong down there anyway. 38:12 But there's a point of diminishing returns as they continue to try to load, which is generally the case with people that are trying to get stronger. It's just like put more weight on the bar, put more weight on the bar. 38:20 Yeah. Yeah, and you know, I, I think for both these individuals, the answer a lot of times, e- even for the hyperflexible person, you'll see them. 38:27 They have pain, and they always just wanna yank and, and overstretch and pull on these different areas of their body. And really, the goal long term is, um, getting away from comp- compensatory patterns, right? 38:39 Patterns that overload, like you said, the low back when maybe it's limited in something else. Um, maybe it's... 38:44 So for that tight person, maybe they're immobile in an area that's causing them to not, let's say, function properly, so they're getting, um, compensation through their low back, and that's why it's getting hurt. 38:53 Um, on the other side, for that individual who lacks the strength, maybe they're not actually able to find co-contraction of their body and stabilize positions and actually maintain the position. 39:03 It may look really good sometimes. The position may look, if you just watched a video of it, but where they're actually feeling the tension and the irritation, um, is, is not the desired, um, place, right? 39:13 So- I think, I think that's an important point. Particularly, let's, let's go back to the Romanian deadlift. Like, you're feeling tight through your hamstrings. Mm-hmm. 39:19 But it's act- that tightness is actually being derived from weak, a weak lower back. Mm-hmm. Right? So your hamstrings are compensating for, and glutes maybe compensating for what the back isn't doing. Yep. 39:30 Your low back, lumbar, lumbar area is not doing. 39:33 So what you're feeling is this, this tremendous tightness, and you think it's your hamstrings are the problem, and they need more, they need more flexibility or, or mobility for that matter. 39:43 But the reality is what you need is more strength, right at the low back, in order to ultimately find that mobility down low at the lower end of that, that, that chain- Yeah... right? Over time. Yeah. 39:54 Um, but again, like I feel tight in my hamstrings, so stretch the hamstrings, right? Yeah. So just work the hamstrings when you have to... 40:01 You have to look at this thing as a whole, and when you, you, again, talking about the components, they all, they all touch one another. Mm. 40:08 Like everything from your heels to the back of your skull, right, is all connected. 40:13 And again, this is that thing where you're, you're talking about, like, y- you're not getting the desired effect 'cause you're focusing on the wrong thing. Yeah. Like, you, it, it's... You've tried to self-diagnose. 40:23 "I feel tight in my hamstrings, so my hamstrings are tight." Okay, why are your hamstrings tight? We have to then go to the next point in the chain to kind of figure out what's going on and apply it appropriately. 40:32 Yeah, and this is where we can, you know... I, I think fascia is a very, like, um, catchy term right now, and I think a lot of people don't really understand what that really means. 40:40 I think it was underappreciated for a long time, and just like most things, it's getting overappreciated and over-focused on. Um, but, you know, fascia is really a lot what has that impact on these full body linkages. 40:51 So fascia is kind of the connective tissue. It's wrapping around muscles, but it's- Like Saran wrap... 40:55 it's like Saran wrap, but a lot of what they have found in fascia is there is, like, local sensory within the fascia that plays a lot in these things like proprioception, um, and tension r- length tension relationships outside of even just the nervous system independently or outside of the, um, the muscle and the tendon independently. 41:12 But, um, so well, to go back to, it really is what causes these linkages of different joints and muscles that impact each other, even if they don't have a direct attachment into each other, um, let's say like locally from the tendon to the muscle onto the bone, right? 41:27 So the kind of classic example is, um, how does what's going on in your foot impact what's going up into your hamstring? Mm. 41:33 Yes, there are nerve endings there, but there's also that fascial connection that impacts up the chain. Mm. You cannot necessarily isolate fascia, right? 41:42 And I think that's what a lot of people are wanting to do, and I- It's driving me nuts, dude... they're, they're selling this program of this is my fascial- Fascial program... training, fascial programs. 41:49 This is a fascial exercise. 41:50 When really at the end of the day, what I think about this, and I do wanna dive in just really quickly into ELDOA and, and fascial stretching and things like that, and where my, um, opinions are on that currently. 42:00 But really what fascial training is, is thinking about the body as a linkage and how things, um, above or below affect above or below, and that's really the way you should be thinking about it. 42:10 Not that this exercise I'm doing is not doing anything for my muscles and it's only doing things for the fascia or vice versa, um, but more thinking how do I integrate, um, align, create certain tension patterns that impact things above and below. 42:24 Mm. So that's where this exercise is... 42:26 You know, a lot of people haven't heard of these, but things, um, like called ELDOAs or myofascial stretching, and we've talked about it a little bit, but it, it's, it's very powerful exercises that I still do use. 42:36 Um, it is something that you can go down the rabbit hole that all of your training and exercise becomes that, and I think that, that, um, that's a mistake long-term. Mm. 42:44 I think there needs to be normal training habits, lifting weights, getting cardio, all those different things- Normal. [laughs] Normal. Typical training patterns. 42:51 But this training is, it's very focused on creating tension above or below, specifically ELDOAs, above and below a joint to create vectors of tension to create space in a specific joint. Mm. 43:02 This can be really powerful, especially for things like the spine, of creating a lot of function, nutrient delivery, waste product clearing, things like that, that, uh, I can see very acutely has impact for individuals. 43:14 But for what it's really doing is building this linkage connection, building proprioception, br- building better function throughout that chain of the exercise. 43:23 Um, and it can be really impactful for both the individual who's really tight, and it can be very impactful for the individual who is, um, very hyper-flexible and building awareness up that chain. 43:34 Learning to how to align all the structures in their body from the pelvis- Mm... to the, to the low back, to the thoracic spine, to the cervical spine, and how those things impact each other above and below. 43:44 I think, uh, people can relate to kind of what you said there in terms of alignment if they've ever spent any time doing yoga. Yep. Now, here's the thing. 43:51 There's, just like anything else, like I've been to some really great yoga instructors and, and- Yep... yoga classes, and I've been to some really shitty ones. Mm-hmm. 44:00 And it's the same as like personal training or anything else, right? 44:03 Um, and you'll hear, you'll, you'll hear instructors or teachers talk about alignment, and you wanna do this, and you want this aligned this way or whatever, without a d- a deeper understanding of what's actually going on there. 44:14 It's like what they're thinking about is what it looks like on the outside, right? How does the arm line up with the shoulder? How does it line up there? 44:20 But they're not thinking deeper in what that alignment looks like from the inside out, from the skeleton on out. 44:26 And so the ELDOA that you're speaking about, um, E-L-D-O-A if people are curious and they wanna Google that, it's a little mysterious. When you look at it, it might, you might look at it and go, "I don't get it." Yeah. 44:36 Like, it looks a little... It, it might even look a little weird to you. But that is the beauty in, in the ELDOAs is- Mm... is starting from the very bottom and working very, to the very top on everything. Yep. 44:47 So it's all integrated, and it makes sure, or the, the, the, the process is to make sure that everything is in that alignment, and we are creating those length tension relationships- Yep... right? 44:57 The linkages that you mentioned in all of the things that you, that you do. That takes a lot of, it takes a lot of knowledge, right? But it also takes a lot of practice. Yeah. 45:07 And as a result, right, I think that's where people kind of drift away from it 'cause they're like, "I don't really get this." This is actually really hard. Like, it's hard to do. 45:16 Um, it, it takes, it takes a coach to be able to coach you through this and pay very close attention to what your body is and isn't doing, and then get some feedback about what you are and what you aren't feeling. 45:27 Uh, this is not yoga class. Yeah. Right? It's not, these are not yoga movements, and it's not, it's also not FRC, functional range conditioning. Yep. It is not that either. It's, it's... 45:36 They're using, we're using similar components, or we're using all the same components, right? We're using a similar approach, but with a much deeper and greater level of detail and intention. 45:47 Um, and I say that bec- I only say that because going back to the fascia statement that you were making, because people don't fully understand those things, they just dumb it down, and they go to, like, the constituent parts, and they go, "We're training this," as, as if we can train fascia in isolation. 46:03 Yeah. Like, you cannot do that. It is physically impossible to do that. And by the way, then they're saying you're gonna train the quadriceps fascia. 46:11 Well, the quadriceps fascia is c- is connected to a whole host of other things. Yep. So there's absolutely no way you can actually do that, and people are reading this, and they're seeing this, and they're... 46:19 There's products to sell and programs to sell and whatever else. And again, as a result, like, people are very confused. Going back to the top of this is like, where does all this fit in? 46:27 Which is, I think, what you're getting to next. Yeah. A- and I think this is a, a part of a total program that can be very powerful. Um, I think it is something that, again, for those individuals can build awareness. 46:39 It can restore function to a system. It can restore function to specific areas. 46:44 It can be a great part of a program that is a building block, um, to build on all the other things like we said, specific mobility work, um, mob- uh, training through ranges of motion that you can own and control, just typical strength training, things like that. 46:57 But it can be an impactful thing for people to- Mm-hmm... get out of pain, get out of- We see it all the time here. I, I teach a class and two hours on it right now, and it can be very, very powerful. 47:07 People line up for that thing. People [laughs] people do, and I- 'Cause they feel great when they leave. They feel great after. Here, here's the other thing they'll tell you, going back to it being hard. 47:14 They'll go, "Dude, I'm exhausted." Yep. Like, "That was really hard." "Sleep like a baby." There's new people, they're surprised as well. They're surprised. It catches them totally off guard. Yeah. 47:21 They're like, "That was really hard, but I feel great." Yeah. "This is weird." Yep. "And I'm a little sweaty, but, like, it's kinda, this is weird. Like, I'm exhausted." 47:30 It's a, it's a, going back to the nervous system, it is, because it is so intentional and you have to pay so close attention to it and the things that you're doing, you really have to be connect- quote, unquote, "connected" with all the things that are going on. 47:42 It will fry your brain. Yep. It's like my dog, right? I can let her out, and she can You know, I take her out and she'll, I'll let her just work her nose. Like, uh, even just h- holding her head out the window. 47:52 It's just stimulating the crap out of her brain, right? And when she's done, she wants to take a nap. Yeah. Like, she, she just recharged the batteries. Yeah. It's the same thing, right? That's kind of going on there. 48:01 So just as for people that, again, this is a little mysterious, but we see this all the time where people coming in and they are hurting, particularly with the low spine, thoracic spine, and cervical spine stuff, um, and how that relates to the shoulders and the hips and all the other things 'cause it's all connected, and they get up and they go, "Oh my God, I feel so much better." 48:19 And it's not something that just is fleeting. Yeah. It's not something they feel better for for the next five minutes, like maybe a chiropractic adjustment, right? 48:26 And then an hour later, they're right back to where they were. However, it does t- take consistency and repetition correctly- Yeah... in order to get a longer term benefit from it. 48:35 Yeah, and that's where really, like, my class is really integrated in kind of the combination of all these things. 48:40 And we, like, we talked about, it really, really stimulates your nervous system, so it's actually learning and having real change. 48:46 And again, not that every day you should be doing only mobility work, but the integration of my class where it does some of the isolated, it does some downregulation stuff, it does some upregulation stuff, it does some isolated strengthening, it does some of the fascial work that's very linkage and very impactful, and this can be a really great tool to impact the rest of your training. 49:05 So having one day of the week where you focus on this stuff can really impact your nervous system and own, um, these new positions, but it needs to be, again, coupled with a typical training program. 49:16 When you're doing your mobility training on the days you're training, have the thing that you're doing that day be the thing that you're doing. Mm. 49:22 So when you're in the gym to lift weights, do the movements that get you into the positions that are beneficial or needed to the movements that you're trying to do based on your goals and capabilities and what you're trying to accomplish. 49:32 Have some of those specific days and things throughout the day movement. 49:36 Um, you know, go to your mobility class that is focused on, you know, my class that we offer both virtually and in person, um, [clears throat] that impacts these things globally. 49:45 And all these things working together will start to move the needle. You're not gonna go from point A all the way to point B, but you can start to make points moving forward from point A to point B. 49:55 And with consistent work, you can improve from whatever individual you are, so. Yeah, it's a really good, it's a really good setup. And there's, there's a lot of information for people to kind of think about. 50:04 So just in terms of perspective, I love what you said there at the end about you're actually training the nervous system, and the, the nervous system is learning. 50:13 This is much different than the tools that I mentioned before, like the foam rollers, the lacrosse balls, the massage guns. You are learning. Your body learns nothing from that. Yeah, that's very passive. 50:22 All, all that's doing is downregulating or starting the downregulation process, and that can be very good. I'm not saying there's no benefit to those things, but your body will learn nothing from that. 50:33 What it can do is put you in a position to learn better. Yep. Right? Love it. 50:36 It's kind of like a warm-up, if you will, to the mobility session that you're gonna go through, and ultimately the strength training session that you're gonna go through in terms of getting those, those, those neuroreceptors to calm down a little bit to allow you, or upregulate in some cases, to allow you to move into these positions in order to get the benefit out of the thing that you're doing. 50:56 So foam rolling is not mobility training. It's a piece of getting you ready for mobility training. Yep. Right? Same with, again, the guns and the balls and, and all that other stuff. 51:06 And then, uh, so in terms of sequencing it, that happens first. Okay, let's, let's get stuff to calm down a little bit. Now let's apply some very specific, very appropriate to the thing that I'm gonna do today, right? 51:17 Or I could spend an hour on the floor doing all kinds of stuff, but how does this actually apply, and how much time do I actually have to apply it going into my RDL day or whatever it is? 51:27 And then when you're done, you can come out of it and you can kind of repeat that process if you had the time, the inclination, and the energy to do it. But that's kinda how it should be set up. 51:35 Same for whether you're the, the super tight person or the super Gumby person, right? The, the, the same principles apply. Maybe you don't need that downregulation. 51:44 What you need is upregulation, so let's make sure we're contracting things and getting things to switch on before we then go and load it up and try to get it to switch on more. 51:52 And I think I just wanted to bring that back because there's a lot of things in there in terms of how do I organize myself in here if I identify as one of these, these different types. Same process, right? 52:03 Different application for the same outcomes. Yep. Right? 52:07 Which is what we're looking for, which is maximal control in all the positions that I need and want to get into that benefit me the most for the thing that I want or need to do or where I might be limited in 52:19 as I'm approaching my fitness program on the floor or in jujitsu or the running that I do or whatever the heck else that you're doing. Skiing, snowboarding, whatever, surfing, whatever it happens to be. 52:30 Like, what ma- what makes sense. Don't think about these as specific exercises. 52:34 There are definitely some recommended things that you can do, and that can all be broken down, but it's, it's not about the, the, these h- you, you ha- you want to be approaching this at a much deeper level than just the high level concept. 52:47 Yeah. Right? There, and, and so I get where people are confused, and I get why it's so easy to sell somebody a bullshit program- Yeah... around fascial training, right? 52:56 Or whatever else, because there's a lot to know there. That's why I wanted to hit that today. 53:00 Yeah, and the last piece of that, too, where the ELDOAs and things like that integrate in, in a typical day-to-day is, like you said, all the sequencing you just said, and then that's a great way to normalize your nervous system and your body at the end of your session. 53:11 Yep. Mm-hmm. That's how you kind of wrap that in and end that in. It's also really great to do before bed, um, and that's how you would mix in the ELDOA sessions as well. It needs to be 10 minutes and under. 53:21 Very, very l- short, not a l- sometimes even just one to two minutes of a s- very specific posture or two, and that can have a great impact for how you walk out the door in that cool down and how you're feeling for the rest of your day. 53:31 So here's the plug for Ryan on this. So if you're curious about what this looks and feels like, Ryan actually broadcasts these sessions, um, every Thursday at 4:30- Yep... um, Pacific Standard Time. 53:44 Um, we can get you into one of those. Just reach out to us. Like, we'll give it, we'll give you the first session. You can try it for free, right? Just, just reach out to us. You can send us an email. 53:51 Go to rdftrainonline.com. Go to the contact page. Just let us know that you heard about this podcast, right? 53:59 And that you want to try that mobility session that Ryan was talking about online, and we'll get you set up for it. You can do it in the comfort of your living room. You literally need nothing. 54:07 If you had maybe a couple props like a yoga block, certainly, like, a mat to lay down on or whatever, and you got an empty wall. Like, an empty wall. Yeah. 54:14 So space where you can get on a wall, 'cause there's some stuff that Ryan does there, but outside of that, you just need about s- a six-foot box, right? 54:21 To kind of lay down or sit down and do some of the stuff that he takes you for, m- or takes you through and maybe a little bit less. 54:27 I would encourage you, like, get the dog out of the room if the dog likes to lick your ears and your nose when you're laying on the f- on, on your back or that kind of stuff, so that you can really focus and be intentional with it. 54:36 But yeah, again, that's rdftrainonline.com. Go to the contact page. Just let us know that you wanna do the mobility session with Ryan on Thursday, um, the webcast that we do, and we'll get you set up. 54:46 We'll send you the link, and, uh, we'll make it happen for you. [upbeat rock music] Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Iron Sights. 54:53 If you enjoyed our conversation, you can support our mission by hitting the subscribe button, leaving a review, and sharing the podcast with a friend. I'll see you on the next episode.
